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Not a new problem: I used to be a mathematics professor. At that time I found there were a certain number of students who could not learn mathematics. I then w

by kps 9y ago

Not a new problem: I used to be a mathematics professor. At that time I found there were a certain number of students who could not learn mathematics. I then was charged with the job of making it easy for businessmen to use our computers. I found it was not a question of whether they could learn mathematics or not, but whether they would. […] They said, ‘Throw those symbols out — I do not know what they mean, I have not time to learn symbols.’ I suggest a reply to those who would like data processing people to use mathematical symbols that they make them first attempt to teach those symbols to vice-presidents or a colonel or admiral. I assure you that I tried it. — Grace Hopper, explaining COBOL (and by extension many modern style guides).

vidarh 9y ago
That's a fantastic quote. My reaction to maths is that the biggest challenge the symbols poses is that I need to remember each one of them and what to call them, whereas with text keyboards I can at least make an educated guess at pronunciation that other people will understand. This, to me, is a massive barrier with maths. If I can't read it out without learning how to mentally translate a symbol to a word, it's a hassle. I have too many things I can spend my time on to deal with that.
- damnfine 9y ago
  That is akin to saying reading is too big a bother because you cannot be expected to remember how to read spell and pronounce words. Maybe tolerance of willful ignorance is the problem here.
  - vidarh 9y ago
    If I had to learn to read, spell and pronounce words in an alien language using an alien alphabet to read a book I wasn't sure would offer me any value when I have plenty of alternatives written with alphabets and in languages I know you might have a point. The choice facing people is one of doing something we find unnecessarily hard and of uncertain payoff vs. doing something much easier with a more certain payoff (because we've got past experience with it). How is your mandarin? Sanskrit? Klingon?
  - carapace 9y ago
    But dinae we ust to spelle yust any ol wae?

by kps 9y ago

vidarh 9y ago

That's a fantastic quote. My reaction to maths is that the biggest challenge the symbols poses is that I need to remember each one of them and what to call them, whereas with text keyboards I can at least make an educated guess at pronunciation that other people will understand. This, to me, is a massive barrier with maths. If I can't read it out without learning how to mentally translate a symbol to a word, it's a hassle. I have too many things I can spend my time on to deal with that.

damnfine 9y ago
That is akin to saying reading is too big a bother because you cannot be expected to remember how to read spell and pronounce words. Maybe tolerance of willful ignorance is the problem here.
- vidarh 9y ago
  If I had to learn to read, spell and pronounce words in an alien language using an alien alphabet to read a book I wasn't sure would offer me any value when I have plenty of alternatives written with alphabets and in languages I know you might have a point. The choice facing people is one of doing something we find unnecessarily hard and of uncertain payoff vs. doing something much easier with a more certain payoff (because we've got past experience with it). How is your mandarin? Sanskrit? Klingon?
- carapace 9y ago
  But dinae we ust to spelle yust any ol wae?