7 ms·

As someone who has been playing for 35 years or so, here are some observations... First and foremost, guitar is a pretty straightforward instrument for beginne

by beat 9y ago

As someone who has been playing for 35 years or so, here are some observations... First and foremost, guitar is a pretty straightforward instrument for beginners. There's a reason it's the most popular instrument in the world. If you put in the effort, you can be playing something musical in a few months, and proficient in basic folk/rock music in a couple of years. It doesn't take "talent". It just takes effort. Something that throws a lot of beginners is that we fret with our "weak" hand and pick with our "strong" hand, which seems backwards. That's only because they're beginners. Picking is much harder than fretting. It doesn't seem that way when you're struggling with cramped hands for your first few chords, but good picking technique is the key to actually being good, and it's very challenging. Don't try to learn on a crap guitar! If it has high action and truly hurts to play, or if it has bad tone, it'll drive you away. Learn on a good instrument. Virtually any guitar that costs over $200-300 new these days is good. You don't need to spend a fortune. And get it "set up" at a good guitar shop. It makes a huge difference in tone and playability. If you're playing rock guitar, there's a real temptation to use way too much distortion to get what you think is the sound on records. Most great rock guitar tones are much cleaner than they sound. When in doubt, use less gain. And finally, the guitar is an incredibly deep instrument. After 35 years, I feel I know less now than I knew after three years. Approach with humility.

s_kilk 9y ago
> Don't try to learn on a crap guitar! If it has high action and truly hurts to play, or if it has bad tone, it'll drive you away. Learn on a good instrument. This x1000 Far too often I've seen people try to learn on a ghastly cheap acoustic because they were "building up to" an electric, the thing they wanted to play in the first place. There's a weird kind of asceticism around the notion of paying-ones-dues on an acoustic first, which ends up just discouraging the learner and preventing them from actually enjoying the instrument.
- H1Supreme 9y ago
  Totally. I ran into this just recently. A friend of mine's girlfriend is starting to learn. Someone gave her an acoustic to learn with. It had: mile high action, old strings, shitty tuners, and the fretwork was awful. There is no way she's going to learn or stick with it. Not with that piece of crap.
- beat 9y ago
  There's often an unwillingness to make the financial commitment to a good instrument when "I don't know if I'll stick with it" (or much worse, parents saying that about the child getting their first guitar!). So you're supposed to learn on a "beginner guitar" (i.e. a shitty guitar). It's so much easier to learn on a good instrument. And good instruments don't have to cost a fortune, either. If someone wanted to learn electric, I'd say just buy a new Squier (by Fender). They're crazy good guitars. And at the $500 or so mark, modern Chinese-made acoustics start getting really, really good.
  - yahna 9y ago
    The higher end squiers are very solid. Used mexi strat is a pretty great option too.
  - npalmer 9y ago
    > I'd say just buy a new Squier (by Fender). I second this, a buddy of mine ended up selling his American Strat because he was playing his custom vibe so much.
- vkjv 9y ago
  Yes, there's also the (incorrect) assumption that decent gear costs bucket loads of money. In fact, you can get used decent gear (not great, but playable) for about the same cost as a new junk starter kit. When you are just starting, it's really difficult to tell why you sound bad. It is really discouraging that even when you are doing it right, it still sounds terrible. My rules of thumb: 1. Start with a decent guitar. Good tuners, action, and intonation are much more important than pick-ups, pedals or amps. A lot of times a used $80 guitar with brand new quality tuners is good enough. 2. Before you even learn to play, learn basic maintenance. E.g., how to change strings, how to tune. 3. Buy a tuner. It takes time to learn to tune by ear. Help yourself out by doing this tool assisted. Also, learn to tune all the time. Many beginners make the mistake of only tuning at the beginning of practice. The act of playing detunes your guitar--especially on cheaper instruments. Re-tune frequently.
- flavio81 9y ago
  > There's a weird kind of asceticism around the notion of paying-ones-dues on an acoustic first So true. They are really two different instruments due to the avaliability of much more sustain on the electric, and the dimensions of the neck and frets. Also on the electric the use of a pick is pretty much a given if you want the most speed. I started on the electric and can play acoustic correctly, however if somebody wants to play electric, should start with electric, and viceversa.
- drzaiusapelord 9y ago
  >There's a weird kind of asceticism around the notion of paying-ones-dues on an acoustic first This is probably mostly financial. Just about everyone knows someone with an old acoustic they can borrow. Picking up even a budget guitar like an entry-level squire and a budget amp is easily a $500+ commitment. Worse, if you end up not liking guitar playing, the resale value is especially terrible. Doubly worse, that 15 watt practice amp isn't going to cut it when you want to jam with a buddy who owns a drum kit or a real bass amp, so now you've sunk $250+ on something you keep in your bedroom and shortly will need to start pricing out 'real' amps and eyeballing pricetags at $1,000 or more with cabinet. Don't get me started when you outgrow that Squire. Suddenly, $1500+ Fenders go from 'who buys that expensive stuff' to 'I should get one.'
grimmdude 9y ago
Cool to see a guitar post on the front page of HN, I suppose it makes sense since many of the programmers I know are also musicians. I'm a guitar player as well, been playing for about 20 years. Completely agree with all your points, especially that it's a "deep instrument". Many people think there's a progress bar for learning it which maxes out, but that progress bar's max is ever increasing (or it should be if you're doing it right). Shameless plug for my guitar videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFFBlI__po2CBLrtynTNbIA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFFBlI__po2CBLrtynTNbIA
- jesuslop 9y ago
  subscribed videos and nice voice man
DanHulton 9y ago
What is involved in getting your guitar "set up" anyway? I'm looking to get back into learning the guitar I bought a few years ago, and I mean it sounded fine to me when I brought it out to check on it, after a tuning, of course.
- ibn_ibid 9y ago
  Setting it up involves fixing the action (height of strings over the fret), tightening up the neck, making sure the electronics are all still connected
  - criddell 9y ago
    I took mine to a guy that has a Plek machine which is basically a CNC machine for fixing neck issues. It made a huge difference on my (cheap Korean) guitar. I always thought my string buzz issues were due to my inexperience but since getting the guitar back, I haven't had anywhere near the problems with fret buzz.
- fhood 9y ago
  Honestly, it is worth it to have a professional set it up for you. Last time I had mt fender dialed in it only cost about 50 bucks.
  - vkjv 9y ago
    Yep. And a lot of [non-chain] shops will do this for free when you buy a guitar, regardless of the cost of that guitar. They treat it as part of the cost of acquiring a lifelong customer.
- beat 9y ago
  Making sure the strings are the right height, all the way down the fretboard. Making sure each string is intonated correctly - that it plays in tune at every fret. (For mechanical reasons, guitars always have problems being in tune everywhere, even the best guitars. Have you noticed that the bridge is not straight, relative to the frets? That's because each string is a slightly different length, to help get it in tune better.) A good setup should also make sure the tuners are moving freely and accurately, that no more substantial repairs are needed (fretwork or major neck adjustments), etc. For a beginning player, these differences can be hard to discern, but they do help. For an advanced player, a poorly set up guitar is a pain in the butt to play.
devwastaken 9y ago
The big thing that's been driving me away from learning is the necessary hardware/Software to create the tones I want. Rather than folk/rock, I'd like something like the ghostly effect of https://youtu.be/mP194XwD2Wc https://youtu.be/mP194XwD2Wc . But audio hardware is expensive and isn't something I can directly research. I made a little jump a month ago and got a condensor mic and a Scarlett Solo mixer, which can do both XLR mic and 1/4 Jack for guitars. So far I've gotten it to play-back in realtime with effects in Ableton lite, but no idea on the guitar or other hardware needed to make that sound good.
- disantlor 9y ago
  It's a very long reverb, probably with an EQ either in the reverb effect or after to roll off all the high. Go to a guitar store with a lot of pedals or check out the Knobs videos on youtube. Find one with a long reverb time and a tone control. This could work too: https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/plugins/pitch-delay-modulation-filtering/h3000-factory https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/plugins/pitch-delay-m...
- SwellJoe 9y ago
  That's just a big long reverb and delay, maybe a bit of chorus, a nice guitar (a moderately nice guitar will sound very nearly as good and can be had for a few hundred bucks...a used Made-in-Mexico Tele would do the trick for $300-$400), and a soft fingerstyle playing technique. The playing style is at least as responsible for the gentleness of the sound as any of the effects or the guitar itself. The spacey/shimmery sounds come from the big reverb and maybe chorus. You can replicate those effects with lots of free or low-priced VSTs. Ableton probably includes reverb, a delay, and chorus plugin, as they're very simple to implement and pretty low overhead.
- SyneRyder 9y ago
  I looked through the YouTube comments on that one, and someone tracked down an interview where he describes his setup: http://www.metalsucks.net/2011/10/07/rigged-devin-townsends-massive-live-rig-piece-by-piece/ http://www.metalsucks.net/2011/10/07/rigged-devin-townsends-... Though at the very end, he says: "At home, I use a Blues Jr. and a delay pedal. :)" In terms of software, I'm not sure if reverb VSTs will help for that sound, but I've heard rave reviews for the Valhalla Vintage Verb (and Room Verb). They're $50 each, but often favorably compared with expensive reverbs on professional recordings like the Lexicon 480L. There's a free demo so you can try it out. https://valhalladsp.com/shop/reverb/valhalla-vintage-verb/ https://valhalladsp.com/shop/reverb/valhalla-vintage-verb/
olivermarks 9y ago
tldr: buy a guitar whose neck fits the size of your hands. Excellent points by @beat. One other aspect for new guitarist is neck size: if you have small hands buying a guitar with a 'baseball bat' style rounded neck makes it very hard to play barre chords and difficult stretched chords. Conversely large hands and fingers need a longer fret board and deeper neck.
- beat 9y ago
  I'm not convinced that small hands need a small neck, or that big hands need a big neck. It's all about what feels comfortable to you. A tradeoff I've noticed is "fast" versus comfortable. Fatter necks tend to be more comfortable to play, as are necks with more pronounced fretboard radius (like vintage-style Fender necks). Flatter, thinner necks are easier to play faster on, but make my hands sore after a while.
  - olivermarks 9y ago
    I was referring to the beginners dilemma, not accomplished players. I used to teach guitar long ago last century, and it was amazing how many people showed up with necks they couldn't get their hand around comfortably. When you are starting out the basic physics and mechanics of pressing down on strings and snapping into chord shapes seems impossible - having a neck that is a sympathetic shape to the arc of your thumb to first finger/hand, frets that fall to your finger size, and probably most critical a fretboard width that works with your fingertip size can make a big difference. Your hand gets sore on a flatter, thinner neck because you are using way more hand muscle strength. For a beginner who doesn't have that muscle memory or strength, this equals impossible. Once you get some basic motor skills down through practice a whole new world opens up and all the different playing qualities of playing different style s of guitar open up.
- jdietrich 9y ago
  I'm not entirely sure about that. I have very small hands, but like most jazz guitarists, I have a strong preference for a relatively fat neck profile. A guitarist's fretting hand is effectively a class three lever, with the thumb as the fulcrum. If your technique is even remotely correct, a very thin neck gives you less mechanical advantage when fretting. I think that the key beginner mistake is gripping the neck like a baseball bat, rather than simply using the neck as a place to rest your thumb. The wonderful Toone/Strandberg trapezoid neck profile suggests that the conventional wisdom on neck profile might be utterly wrong. I do strongly advocate short scale lengths - most women and teenagers should at the very least lean towards a Gibson-scale instrument and may be better off with something in the 22" to 24" range. IME a lot of female guitarists gravitate towards using a capo on the 3rd to 5th fret, partly because it brings the guitar into a more appropriate register to accompany the female voice but primarily because it gives them a shorter effective scale length.
fastbeef 9y ago
+1 on getting good gear from day 1. Being a "guitar guy" people always ask me to recommend a starting kit when their kids are starting to play. I always tell them, look, spend twice as much as a crappy beginner set on a decent used Fender + decent amp. This will make playing much more fun and the chance that they will continue to play is much higher and if they don't catch the bug? No biggie, sell it for the same amount as you bought it for. They ALWAYS go "yeeeeeah I wasn't looking to spend that much" and lo and behold the kid gets bored of it in three months and the parents are stuck with an usellable guitar.
- SwellJoe 9y ago
  To add to this: If you have a friend that plays guitar (preferably one who plays well), ask them to go to the music store with you to pick out a low cost, high quality, instrument. I've gladly done this for several friends over the years. And, it's surprising what you can find on the very low end of the market these days. Yamaha has some fantastic cheap guitars, for example. $200-$300 will get you a new, entirely playable, acoustic or electric guitar. I have a $2000+ Gibson J45, and I often play my girlfriend's $250 Yamaha...it's really not a bad guitar, at all. I have no real complaints about it; it obviously isn't as nice as my J45, but hell, it cost a 9th as much (she actually got it free...someone who moved out of an apartment left it behind). Having an experienced friend with you will help make sure the instrument is setup correctly (that can be an issue, and you shouldn't buy a new instrument that isn't), that it sounds nice and plays comfortably, etc. There is some variability in quality across instruments, and they're made of natural materials with variable densities and characteristics, so even if you read a bunch of reviews and go buy the best reviewed one, an experienced friend can help pick the best one of that model in the store.
- baby 9y ago
  I have a different take, I always advise people to get the cheapest guitar they can find, a second hand one if possible (because for the price you'll get better quality). I've bought guitars for 50$ that were really good guitar for myself, so I can't see why you wouldn't be able to start with that.
  - 9y ago
deleted 9y ago
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SwellJoe 9y ago
"If you're playing rock guitar, there's a real temptation to use way too much distortion to get what you think is the sound on records. Most great rock guitar tones are much cleaner than they sound. When in doubt, use less gain." So true it hurts. I'm a guitarist of three decades and I worked as a recording engineer through college and occasionally as a hobby since then (I went to school for audio engineering). The number of times I've had to beg, plead, cajole, and threaten a guitarist to cut the distortion is huge. The hallmark of an amateur guitarist is mosquito tone. There's a belief that it masks errors, and it does, but it's such a glaring error in and of itself that it's not worth the trade-off.
- eggpy 9y ago
  mosquito tone?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - SwellJoe 9y ago
    This is a pretty good video abut the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYtXBUS_kwY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYtXBUS_kwY "Mosquito" just means buzzy and lacking clarity. In the video, he's using good quality gear and is a pretty good player, so even when he does everything wrong it doesn't sound as bad as this problem can sound. Then again, his "good" example is still too distorted to record well even for the style of music he's playing (metal uses much more distortion than any other genre), and if I were recording him, I'd be begging him to take it down a couple more notches.
  - mikestew 9y ago
    Over-distorted, i. e., buzzy, like a mosquito.
flavio81 9y ago
> First and foremost, guitar is a pretty straightforward instrument for beginners. I agree with your assessment and comments! I play drums, guitar, keyboard and some bass. Guitar is the easiest by far. From the list, drums is the hardest. With regards to technique, bass is straightforward if you know how to play guitar; however the mindset or approach to bass playing within a band is way different than guitar's. > There's a reason it's the most popular instrument in the world. ... also because it was way cheaper (and portable) than a piano or a drumset. It is cheaper than even a trumpet or sax.
- beat 9y ago
  Drums are hard! I occasionally noodle at them, but I'm a crap drummer. My favorite hard, hard instrument is the tambourine. It's amazing something so small and simple can present such challenges, but it does. And played well, it's extremely expressive. The only instrument that ever actually defeated me was pedal steel guitar. I quit and sold it. Becoming an accomplished player on pedal steel would have taken about three years as my primary instrument, in bands so I could get lots of stage time. This, after decades of guitar! On the other hand, there are things that can be played on pedal steel that cannot be played on any other instrument! The ability to change a chord to another chord by bending the pitches of some, but not all of the notes - wow. It's glorious.
  - flavio81 9y ago
    > My favorite hard, hard instrument is the tambourine. It's amazing something so small and simple can present such challenges, but it does. And played well, it's extremely expressive. There's the brazilian "pandeiro"; it's amazing. I've seen some demostrations of skilled pandeiro players and they can sort-of emulate a full drumset with that toy-like instrument.
21 9y ago
Not sure how many kids in high-school would spend 200 on a guitar. Not saying that they don't spend more on phones or clothes, but those are easy to see the immediate benefit for (even if that analysis is flawed).
azakai 9y ago
> Picking is much harder than fretting. Is it? I've been playing classical and folk for a long time and I think picking is far, far easier. Maybe picking is harder in other styles, like electric guitar?
- beat 9y ago
  It definitely is. Classical picking is hard, too. It's about generating a good tone and keeping good time, and also about muting to control rhythm and tone as well as unwanted notes. Picking is an endlessly deep well. Chords and scales are quite straightforward by comparison.
  - azakai 9y ago
    Very strange to hear that. Fretting is far, far harder in my experience, especially the more sophisticated chord formations. I guess for different people it's different.
drzaiusapelord 9y ago
> Picking is much harder than fretting. Is it, really? I'm a lefty who plays righty guitars and found I had a small advantage with learning and playing because my dexterous hand was given the 'hard' part already. I never learned classical and stay with rock-ish music so picking never got terribly complex for me. I also wonder at the reasoning for hand placement is. We're talking about a 2,500+ year old instrument and I imagine there's a lot of arbitrary decisions and tradition we just carry through. These ancient guitars had much, much simpler fretboards so it probably made sense to focus the dominant hand on the strumming/rhythm part. Nowadays its probably a wash, if not just a little wrong. That said, its not remotely an ergonomic setup and fret handling is going to be a challenge for just about anyone at first. Guitar is an "easy" instrument but that first month or two is a real pain.
c54 9y ago
I’m left handed but also in the possession of a regular guitar, I’ve half gotten into it a couple times and can play the basic letter chords and do some progressions etc. Is it worth while to get a lefty guitar? Will picking ability limit me in a big way? I have noticed that being rhythmic in licking with my right hand can be tricky, but I figured it’s something I can learn through...
- flavio81 9y ago
  > Is it worth while to get a lefty guitar? If electric, you can just use the regular "righty" guitar, just fit the strings accordingly. Jimi Hendrix, probably the most famous electric guitar player ever, did this way. He was a lefty. If you haven't seen him on video, please do it right now. Your mind will be blown! If acoustic, they are often totally symmetrical, so no difference. > I have noticed that being rhythmic in licking with my right hand can be tricky, but I figured it’s something I can learn through... I think lefties are more likely to be able to play guitar "ambidextrously", an impressive sight. The rhythmic hand (strumming hand) is the most difficult to train, IMO. Pressing the frets is learned way quicker than picking properly.
vondur 9y ago
I learned on a cheap (sub $100) strat copy. I was only 14, so I didn't know any better. What I did know is that I wanted to learn to play Iron Maiden songs, and it worked.
tabtab 9y ago
Re: "If you put in the effort, you can be playing something musical in a few months..." Months?! With an auto-harp, one can be playing in an hour. Auto-harp is instant gratification; I just wish it had a fuller sound. Inventors, work on that. I tried learning guitar from Youtube vids, and my fingers were sore. They don't bend that way, at least not without pain. Will the pain go away? I'm not young.

by beat 9y ago

s_kilk 9y ago

> Don't try to learn on a crap guitar! If it has high action and truly hurts to play, or if it has bad tone, it'll drive you away. Learn on a good instrument. This x1000 Far too often I've seen people try to learn on a ghastly cheap acoustic because they were "building up to" an electric, the thing they wanted to play in the first place. There's a weird kind of asceticism around the notion of paying-ones-dues on an acoustic first, which ends up just discouraging the learner and preventing them from actually enjoying the instrument.

H1Supreme 9y ago
Totally. I ran into this just recently. A friend of mine's girlfriend is starting to learn. Someone gave her an acoustic to learn with. It had: mile high action, old strings, shitty tuners, and the fretwork was awful. There is no way she's going to learn or stick with it. Not with that piece of crap.
beat 9y ago
There's often an unwillingness to make the financial commitment to a good instrument when "I don't know if I'll stick with it" (or much worse, parents saying that about the child getting their first guitar!). So you're supposed to learn on a "beginner guitar" (i.e. a shitty guitar). It's so much easier to learn on a good instrument. And good instruments don't have to cost a fortune, either. If someone wanted to learn electric, I'd say just buy a new Squier (by Fender). They're crazy good guitars. And at the $500 or so mark, modern Chinese-made acoustics start getting really, really good.
- yahna 9y ago
  The higher end squiers are very solid. Used mexi strat is a pretty great option too.
- npalmer 9y ago
  > I'd say just buy a new Squier (by Fender). I second this, a buddy of mine ended up selling his American Strat because he was playing his custom vibe so much.
vkjv 9y ago
Yes, there's also the (incorrect) assumption that decent gear costs bucket loads of money. In fact, you can get used decent gear (not great, but playable) for about the same cost as a new junk starter kit. When you are just starting, it's really difficult to tell why you sound bad. It is really discouraging that even when you are doing it right, it still sounds terrible. My rules of thumb: 1. Start with a decent guitar. Good tuners, action, and intonation are much more important than pick-ups, pedals or amps. A lot of times a used $80 guitar with brand new quality tuners is good enough. 2. Before you even learn to play, learn basic maintenance. E.g., how to change strings, how to tune. 3. Buy a tuner. It takes time to learn to tune by ear. Help yourself out by doing this tool assisted. Also, learn to tune all the time. Many beginners make the mistake of only tuning at the beginning of practice. The act of playing detunes your guitar--especially on cheaper instruments. Re-tune frequently.
flavio81 9y ago
> There's a weird kind of asceticism around the notion of paying-ones-dues on an acoustic first So true. They are really two different instruments due to the avaliability of much more sustain on the electric, and the dimensions of the neck and frets. Also on the electric the use of a pick is pretty much a given if you want the most speed. I started on the electric and can play acoustic correctly, however if somebody wants to play electric, should start with electric, and viceversa.
drzaiusapelord 9y ago
>There's a weird kind of asceticism around the notion of paying-ones-dues on an acoustic first This is probably mostly financial. Just about everyone knows someone with an old acoustic they can borrow. Picking up even a budget guitar like an entry-level squire and a budget amp is easily a $500+ commitment. Worse, if you end up not liking guitar playing, the resale value is especially terrible. Doubly worse, that 15 watt practice amp isn't going to cut it when you want to jam with a buddy who owns a drum kit or a real bass amp, so now you've sunk $250+ on something you keep in your bedroom and shortly will need to start pricing out 'real' amps and eyeballing pricetags at $1,000 or more with cabinet. Don't get me started when you outgrow that Squire. Suddenly, $1500+ Fenders go from 'who buys that expensive stuff' to 'I should get one.'

grimmdude 9y ago

Cool to see a guitar post on the front page of HN, I suppose it makes sense since many of the programmers I know are also musicians. I'm a guitar player as well, been playing for about 20 years. Completely agree with all your points, especially that it's a "deep instrument". Many people think there's a progress bar for learning it which maxes out, but that progress bar's max is ever increasing (or it should be if you're doing it right). Shameless plug for my guitar videos: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFFBlI__po2CBLrtynTNbIA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFFBlI__po2CBLrtynTNbIA

jesuslop 9y ago
subscribed videos and nice voice man

DanHulton 9y ago

What is involved in getting your guitar "set up" anyway? I'm looking to get back into learning the guitar I bought a few years ago, and I mean it sounded fine to me when I brought it out to check on it, after a tuning, of course.

ibn_ibid 9y ago
Setting it up involves fixing the action (height of strings over the fret), tightening up the neck, making sure the electronics are all still connected
- criddell 9y ago
  I took mine to a guy that has a Plek machine which is basically a CNC machine for fixing neck issues. It made a huge difference on my (cheap Korean) guitar. I always thought my string buzz issues were due to my inexperience but since getting the guitar back, I haven't had anywhere near the problems with fret buzz.
fhood 9y ago
Honestly, it is worth it to have a professional set it up for you. Last time I had mt fender dialed in it only cost about 50 bucks.
- vkjv 9y ago
  Yep. And a lot of [non-chain] shops will do this for free when you buy a guitar, regardless of the cost of that guitar. They treat it as part of the cost of acquiring a lifelong customer.
beat 9y ago
Making sure the strings are the right height, all the way down the fretboard. Making sure each string is intonated correctly - that it plays in tune at every fret. (For mechanical reasons, guitars always have problems being in tune everywhere, even the best guitars. Have you noticed that the bridge is not straight, relative to the frets? That's because each string is a slightly different length, to help get it in tune better.) A good setup should also make sure the tuners are moving freely and accurately, that no more substantial repairs are needed (fretwork or major neck adjustments), etc. For a beginning player, these differences can be hard to discern, but they do help. For an advanced player, a poorly set up guitar is a pain in the butt to play.

devwastaken 9y ago

The big thing that's been driving me away from learning is the necessary hardware/Software to create the tones I want. Rather than folk/rock, I'd like something like the ghostly effect of https://youtu.be/mP194XwD2Wc https://youtu.be/mP194XwD2Wc . But audio hardware is expensive and isn't something I can directly research. I made a little jump a month ago and got a condensor mic and a Scarlett Solo mixer, which can do both XLR mic and 1/4 Jack for guitars. So far I've gotten it to play-back in realtime with effects in Ableton lite, but no idea on the guitar or other hardware needed to make that sound good.

disantlor 9y ago
It's a very long reverb, probably with an EQ either in the reverb effect or after to roll off all the high. Go to a guitar store with a lot of pedals or check out the Knobs videos on youtube. Find one with a long reverb time and a tone control. This could work too: https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/plugins/pitch-delay-modulation-filtering/h3000-factory https://www.eventideaudio.com/products/plugins/pitch-delay-m...
SwellJoe 9y ago
That's just a big long reverb and delay, maybe a bit of chorus, a nice guitar (a moderately nice guitar will sound very nearly as good and can be had for a few hundred bucks...a used Made-in-Mexico Tele would do the trick for $300-$400), and a soft fingerstyle playing technique. The playing style is at least as responsible for the gentleness of the sound as any of the effects or the guitar itself. The spacey/shimmery sounds come from the big reverb and maybe chorus. You can replicate those effects with lots of free or low-priced VSTs. Ableton probably includes reverb, a delay, and chorus plugin, as they're very simple to implement and pretty low overhead.
SyneRyder 9y ago
I looked through the YouTube comments on that one, and someone tracked down an interview where he describes his setup: http://www.metalsucks.net/2011/10/07/rigged-devin-townsends-massive-live-rig-piece-by-piece/ http://www.metalsucks.net/2011/10/07/rigged-devin-townsends-... Though at the very end, he says: "At home, I use a Blues Jr. and a delay pedal. :)" In terms of software, I'm not sure if reverb VSTs will help for that sound, but I've heard rave reviews for the Valhalla Vintage Verb (and Room Verb). They're $50 each, but often favorably compared with expensive reverbs on professional recordings like the Lexicon 480L. There's a free demo so you can try it out. https://valhalladsp.com/shop/reverb/valhalla-vintage-verb/ https://valhalladsp.com/shop/reverb/valhalla-vintage-verb/

olivermarks 9y ago

tldr: buy a guitar whose neck fits the size of your hands. Excellent points by @beat. One other aspect for new guitarist is neck size: if you have small hands buying a guitar with a 'baseball bat' style rounded neck makes it very hard to play barre chords and difficult stretched chords. Conversely large hands and fingers need a longer fret board and deeper neck.

beat 9y ago
I'm not convinced that small hands need a small neck, or that big hands need a big neck. It's all about what feels comfortable to you. A tradeoff I've noticed is "fast" versus comfortable. Fatter necks tend to be more comfortable to play, as are necks with more pronounced fretboard radius (like vintage-style Fender necks). Flatter, thinner necks are easier to play faster on, but make my hands sore after a while.
- olivermarks 9y ago
  I was referring to the beginners dilemma, not accomplished players. I used to teach guitar long ago last century, and it was amazing how many people showed up with necks they couldn't get their hand around comfortably. When you are starting out the basic physics and mechanics of pressing down on strings and snapping into chord shapes seems impossible - having a neck that is a sympathetic shape to the arc of your thumb to first finger/hand, frets that fall to your finger size, and probably most critical a fretboard width that works with your fingertip size can make a big difference. Your hand gets sore on a flatter, thinner neck because you are using way more hand muscle strength. For a beginner who doesn't have that muscle memory or strength, this equals impossible. Once you get some basic motor skills down through practice a whole new world opens up and all the different playing qualities of playing different style s of guitar open up.
jdietrich 9y ago
I'm not entirely sure about that. I have very small hands, but like most jazz guitarists, I have a strong preference for a relatively fat neck profile. A guitarist's fretting hand is effectively a class three lever, with the thumb as the fulcrum. If your technique is even remotely correct, a very thin neck gives you less mechanical advantage when fretting. I think that the key beginner mistake is gripping the neck like a baseball bat, rather than simply using the neck as a place to rest your thumb. The wonderful Toone/Strandberg trapezoid neck profile suggests that the conventional wisdom on neck profile might be utterly wrong. I do strongly advocate short scale lengths - most women and teenagers should at the very least lean towards a Gibson-scale instrument and may be better off with something in the 22" to 24" range. IME a lot of female guitarists gravitate towards using a capo on the 3rd to 5th fret, partly because it brings the guitar into a more appropriate register to accompany the female voice but primarily because it gives them a shorter effective scale length.

fastbeef 9y ago

+1 on getting good gear from day 1. Being a "guitar guy" people always ask me to recommend a starting kit when their kids are starting to play. I always tell them, look, spend twice as much as a crappy beginner set on a decent used Fender + decent amp. This will make playing much more fun and the chance that they will continue to play is much higher and if they don't catch the bug? No biggie, sell it for the same amount as you bought it for. They ALWAYS go "yeeeeeah I wasn't looking to spend that much" and lo and behold the kid gets bored of it in three months and the parents are stuck with an usellable guitar.

SwellJoe 9y ago
To add to this: If you have a friend that plays guitar (preferably one who plays well), ask them to go to the music store with you to pick out a low cost, high quality, instrument. I've gladly done this for several friends over the years. And, it's surprising what you can find on the very low end of the market these days. Yamaha has some fantastic cheap guitars, for example. $200-$300 will get you a new, entirely playable, acoustic or electric guitar. I have a $2000+ Gibson J45, and I often play my girlfriend's $250 Yamaha...it's really not a bad guitar, at all. I have no real complaints about it; it obviously isn't as nice as my J45, but hell, it cost a 9th as much (she actually got it free...someone who moved out of an apartment left it behind). Having an experienced friend with you will help make sure the instrument is setup correctly (that can be an issue, and you shouldn't buy a new instrument that isn't), that it sounds nice and plays comfortably, etc. There is some variability in quality across instruments, and they're made of natural materials with variable densities and characteristics, so even if you read a bunch of reviews and go buy the best reviewed one, an experienced friend can help pick the best one of that model in the store.
baby 9y ago
I have a different take, I always advise people to get the cheapest guitar they can find, a second hand one if possible (because for the price you'll get better quality). I've bought guitars for 50$ that were really good guitar for myself, so I can't see why you wouldn't be able to start with that.
- 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

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SwellJoe 9y ago

"If you're playing rock guitar, there's a real temptation to use way too much distortion to get what you think is the sound on records. Most great rock guitar tones are much cleaner than they sound. When in doubt, use less gain." So true it hurts. I'm a guitarist of three decades and I worked as a recording engineer through college and occasionally as a hobby since then (I went to school for audio engineering). The number of times I've had to beg, plead, cajole, and threaten a guitarist to cut the distortion is huge. The hallmark of an amateur guitarist is mosquito tone. There's a belief that it masks errors, and it does, but it's such a glaring error in and of itself that it's not worth the trade-off.

eggpy 9y ago
mosquito tone?
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- SwellJoe 9y ago
  This is a pretty good video abut the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYtXBUS_kwY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYtXBUS_kwY "Mosquito" just means buzzy and lacking clarity. In the video, he's using good quality gear and is a pretty good player, so even when he does everything wrong it doesn't sound as bad as this problem can sound. Then again, his "good" example is still too distorted to record well even for the style of music he's playing (metal uses much more distortion than any other genre), and if I were recording him, I'd be begging him to take it down a couple more notches.
- mikestew 9y ago
  Over-distorted, i. e., buzzy, like a mosquito.

flavio81 9y ago

> First and foremost, guitar is a pretty straightforward instrument for beginners. I agree with your assessment and comments! I play drums, guitar, keyboard and some bass. Guitar is the easiest by far. From the list, drums is the hardest. With regards to technique, bass is straightforward if you know how to play guitar; however the mindset or approach to bass playing within a band is way different than guitar's. > There's a reason it's the most popular instrument in the world. ... also because it was way cheaper (and portable) than a piano or a drumset. It is cheaper than even a trumpet or sax.

beat 9y ago
Drums are hard! I occasionally noodle at them, but I'm a crap drummer. My favorite hard, hard instrument is the tambourine. It's amazing something so small and simple can present such challenges, but it does. And played well, it's extremely expressive. The only instrument that ever actually defeated me was pedal steel guitar. I quit and sold it. Becoming an accomplished player on pedal steel would have taken about three years as my primary instrument, in bands so I could get lots of stage time. This, after decades of guitar! On the other hand, there are things that can be played on pedal steel that cannot be played on any other instrument! The ability to change a chord to another chord by bending the pitches of some, but not all of the notes - wow. It's glorious.
- flavio81 9y ago
  > My favorite hard, hard instrument is the tambourine. It's amazing something so small and simple can present such challenges, but it does. And played well, it's extremely expressive. There's the brazilian "pandeiro"; it's amazing. I've seen some demostrations of skilled pandeiro players and they can sort-of emulate a full drumset with that toy-like instrument.

21 9y ago

Not sure how many kids in high-school would spend 200 on a guitar. Not saying that they don't spend more on phones or clothes, but those are easy to see the immediate benefit for (even if that analysis is flawed).

azakai 9y ago

> Picking is much harder than fretting. Is it? I've been playing classical and folk for a long time and I think picking is far, far easier. Maybe picking is harder in other styles, like electric guitar?

beat 9y ago
It definitely is. Classical picking is hard, too. It's about generating a good tone and keeping good time, and also about muting to control rhythm and tone as well as unwanted notes. Picking is an endlessly deep well. Chords and scales are quite straightforward by comparison.
- azakai 9y ago
  Very strange to hear that. Fretting is far, far harder in my experience, especially the more sophisticated chord formations. I guess for different people it's different.

drzaiusapelord 9y ago

> Picking is much harder than fretting. Is it, really? I'm a lefty who plays righty guitars and found I had a small advantage with learning and playing because my dexterous hand was given the 'hard' part already. I never learned classical and stay with rock-ish music so picking never got terribly complex for me. I also wonder at the reasoning for hand placement is. We're talking about a 2,500+ year old instrument and I imagine there's a lot of arbitrary decisions and tradition we just carry through. These ancient guitars had much, much simpler fretboards so it probably made sense to focus the dominant hand on the strumming/rhythm part. Nowadays its probably a wash, if not just a little wrong. That said, its not remotely an ergonomic setup and fret handling is going to be a challenge for just about anyone at first. Guitar is an "easy" instrument but that first month or two is a real pain.

c54 9y ago

I’m left handed but also in the possession of a regular guitar, I’ve half gotten into it a couple times and can play the basic letter chords and do some progressions etc. Is it worth while to get a lefty guitar? Will picking ability limit me in a big way? I have noticed that being rhythmic in licking with my right hand can be tricky, but I figured it’s something I can learn through...

flavio81 9y ago
> Is it worth while to get a lefty guitar? If electric, you can just use the regular "righty" guitar, just fit the strings accordingly. Jimi Hendrix, probably the most famous electric guitar player ever, did this way. He was a lefty. If you haven't seen him on video, please do it right now. Your mind will be blown! If acoustic, they are often totally symmetrical, so no difference. > I have noticed that being rhythmic in licking with my right hand can be tricky, but I figured it’s something I can learn through... I think lefties are more likely to be able to play guitar "ambidextrously", an impressive sight. The rhythmic hand (strumming hand) is the most difficult to train, IMO. Pressing the frets is learned way quicker than picking properly.

vondur 9y ago

I learned on a cheap (sub $100) strat copy. I was only 14, so I didn't know any better. What I did know is that I wanted to learn to play Iron Maiden songs, and it worked.

tabtab 9y ago

Re: "If you put in the effort, you can be playing something musical in a few months..." Months?! With an auto-harp, one can be playing in an hour. Auto-harp is instant gratification; I just wish it had a fuller sound. Inventors, work on that. I tried learning guitar from Youtube vids, and my fingers were sore. They don't bend that way, at least not without pain. Will the pain go away? I'm not young.