5 ms·

Nazis, as a matter of written ideology, espouse ethnic cleansing. African Americans do not. I cannot believe I am having this debate, and on HN of all places. H

Nazis, as a matter of written ideology, espouse ethnic cleansing. African Americans do not. I cannot believe I am having this debate, and on HN of all places. Has the world gone insane?

alexknvl 9y ago
But who do you trust to decide that someone is a Nazi? Should it be Slate, some government bureaucracy, you personally, AirBnB? What if someone labels you a Nazi? Should we just throw them into water and see if they float? Or administer a "are you a Nazi" test on a polygraph? EDIT: This is a problem of the current political climate where words have lost their meaning. A lot of people even remotely right of center have been called a Nazi or "alt-right" or "white-supremacist".
- flunhat 9y ago
  This isn't that hard - Airbnb has the right to ban Nazis from its platform. It has the right to ban anyone it wants to from its platform, with the exception of protected classes laid out in law, because it is a private company. I really, really do not see the controversy here. Obviously, you can't tell if someone is a Nazi, so only those who openly display their ideology should be banned.
- yongjik 9y ago
  > Should we just throw them into water and see if they float? Or administer a "are you a Nazi" test on a polygraph? How about good old fashioned, "Is that a fucking swastika your friend is carrying over his shoulder?" https://twitter.com/AndyBCampbell/status/896385942495285248 https://twitter.com/AndyBCampbell/status/896385942495285248
- thinkfurther 9y ago
  When they run around with torches and swastikas, they're Nazis. What's the problem? When someone steals your car, are you also hesitant to call them a thief because "people have been called thieves for bad reasons before"? Yes, and? But generally, yeah, let's test people for lack of empathy and other things. That would be much more interesting than what particular ideology they dress the underlying issues up with, and it would also address the "shutting people up for voicing things we can't handle because they're correct" crowd that hide under the mantle of social justice and whatnot.
rsj_hn 9y ago
>"Nazis, as a matter of written ideology, espouse ethnic cleansing" Yes, the "Nazi ideology" espouses this. But you are renting to actual people, and 1) You have no way of knowing whether _they_ really espouse the ethnic cleansing of you and yours, or whether you just think they do. Lots of people wear swatstikas but they don't actually favor mass extermination. There are holocaust deniers who are called Nazis and maybe even view themselves as Nazis but, pretty much by definition, don't support the holocaust. As another example, elsewhere in this thread you have made characterizations about me that don't have any basis in reality, so who is to trust you to decide whether someone truly wants to ethnically cleanse you and yours? 2) even if they were _actual_ Nazis, which you have no way of knowing, by renting to them, you and yours are not going to be ethnically cleansed. The fact that someone has a political belief is not in and of itself a cause to make them fail to pay rent or fulfill any other of their obligations as tenants. As a result, in many jurisdictions, it's illegal to not rent to them.(a) 3) There is a strong likelihood that landlords will end up refusing to rent to people whose views they don't like. A capitalist landlord can refuse to rent to a communist, because the communist wants to overthrow them. That will turn into not renting to someone who is interested in communism, etc, which will turn into not renting someone who attends a communist rally. Someone else in this thread decided that a Swatstika on a "friend" would be enough evidence, so now we are getting into not renting to someone based on their associating with people suspected of Nazism, etc. (a) In California, it is illegal to not rent to someone based on "arbitrary characteristics" not related to their ability to fulfill the terms of the lease. See, e.g. http://articles.latimes.com/2014/mar/30/business/la-fi-rentwatch-20140330 http://articles.latimes.com/2014/mar/30/business/la-fi-rentw... Again, the laws differ jurisdiction by jurisdiction. Believe me, it's not the leftists who end up owning most of the property. These protections are part of living in an open society in which people are not discriminated against based on their beliefs. As we get more of a housing crunch and in many cities there is a growing population of renters, it becomes more important that your political affiliation not disqualify you from access to shelter. This may mean that some landlords have to rent to those whose politics they dislike, but that's the price of living in a free society. You are free to espouse any ideology you want as long as you don't break any laws.
- flunhat 9y ago
  > You have no way of knowing whether _they_ really espouse the ethnic cleansing of you and yours If they're Nazis, make Hitler salutes, and fly flags with swastikas on them, of course I do! That's practically the point of ideology lmao

Nazis, as a matter of written ideology, espouse ethnic cleansing. African Americans do not. I cannot believe I am having this debate, and on HN of all places. Has the world gone insane?

alexknvl 9y ago

But who do you trust to decide that someone is a Nazi? Should it be Slate, some government bureaucracy, you personally, AirBnB? What if someone labels you a Nazi? Should we just throw them into water and see if they float? Or administer a "are you a Nazi" test on a polygraph? EDIT: This is a problem of the current political climate where words have lost their meaning. A lot of people even remotely right of center have been called a Nazi or "alt-right" or "white-supremacist".

flunhat 9y ago
This isn't that hard - Airbnb has the right to ban Nazis from its platform. It has the right to ban anyone it wants to from its platform, with the exception of protected classes laid out in law, because it is a private company. I really, really do not see the controversy here. Obviously, you can't tell if someone is a Nazi, so only those who openly display their ideology should be banned.
yongjik 9y ago
> Should we just throw them into water and see if they float? Or administer a "are you a Nazi" test on a polygraph? How about good old fashioned, "Is that a fucking swastika your friend is carrying over his shoulder?" https://twitter.com/AndyBCampbell/status/896385942495285248 https://twitter.com/AndyBCampbell/status/896385942495285248
thinkfurther 9y ago
When they run around with torches and swastikas, they're Nazis. What's the problem? When someone steals your car, are you also hesitant to call them a thief because "people have been called thieves for bad reasons before"? Yes, and? But generally, yeah, let's test people for lack of empathy and other things. That would be much more interesting than what particular ideology they dress the underlying issues up with, and it would also address the "shutting people up for voicing things we can't handle because they're correct" crowd that hide under the mantle of social justice and whatnot.

rsj_hn 9y ago

>"Nazis, as a matter of written ideology, espouse ethnic cleansing" Yes, the "Nazi ideology" espouses this. But you are renting to actual people, and 1) You have no way of knowing whether _they_ really espouse the ethnic cleansing of you and yours, or whether you just think they do. Lots of people wear swatstikas but they don't actually favor mass extermination. There are holocaust deniers who are called Nazis and maybe even view themselves as Nazis but, pretty much by definition, don't support the holocaust. As another example, elsewhere in this thread you have made characterizations about me that don't have any basis in reality, so who is to trust you to decide whether someone truly wants to ethnically cleanse you and yours? 2) even if they were _actual_ Nazis, which you have no way of knowing, by renting to them, you and yours are not going to be ethnically cleansed. The fact that someone has a political belief is not in and of itself a cause to make them fail to pay rent or fulfill any other of their obligations as tenants. As a result, in many jurisdictions, it's illegal to not rent to them.(a) 3) There is a strong likelihood that landlords will end up refusing to rent to people whose views they don't like. A capitalist landlord can refuse to rent to a communist, because the communist wants to overthrow them. That will turn into not renting to someone who is interested in communism, etc, which will turn into not renting someone who attends a communist rally. Someone else in this thread decided that a Swatstika on a "friend" would be enough evidence, so now we are getting into not renting to someone based on their associating with people suspected of Nazism, etc. (a) In California, it is illegal to not rent to someone based on "arbitrary characteristics" not related to their ability to fulfill the terms of the lease. See, e.g. http://articles.latimes.com/2014/mar/30/business/la-fi-rentwatch-20140330 http://articles.latimes.com/2014/mar/30/business/la-fi-rentw... Again, the laws differ jurisdiction by jurisdiction. Believe me, it's not the leftists who end up owning most of the property. These protections are part of living in an open society in which people are not discriminated against based on their beliefs. As we get more of a housing crunch and in many cities there is a growing population of renters, it becomes more important that your political affiliation not disqualify you from access to shelter. This may mean that some landlords have to rent to those whose politics they dislike, but that's the price of living in a free society. You are free to espouse any ideology you want as long as you don't break any laws.

flunhat 9y ago
> You have no way of knowing whether _they_ really espouse the ethnic cleansing of you and yours If they're Nazis, make Hitler salutes, and fly flags with swastikas on them, of course I do! That's practically the point of ideology lmao