5 ms·

I don't know if this does a lot of good for Airbnb, aside from good publicity. Hate groups will go underground. They will still use Airbnb, but they'll hide the

I don't know if this does a lot of good for Airbnb, aside from good publicity. Hate groups will go underground. They will still use Airbnb, but they'll hide their activities more.

pm24601 9y ago
And how is this a bad thing? Allowing hate groups "above ground" normalizes their behavior. They should be underground.
- sebleon 9y ago
  Having hate groups above ground makes it easier to assess size of this problem and fix it.
- zachrose 9y ago
  Let's imagine there is a just future ahead. How do we get there? Suppress white supremecy from public discussion, and hope it dies out from loneliness in a few generations? Good luck with that. I want white supremacism die out, not white supremacist people themselves. I want their voice in the public dialogue. I want white supremacists to bring their ideology into the public sphere so that it can be visibly argued against. I want white supremacists to experience a change of heart.
  - pm24601 9y ago
    > Suppress white supremecy from public discussion, and hope it dies out from loneliness in a few generations? Good luck with that. Actually, ... yes. White supremacy used to be the norm. Slavery, lynch mobs, KKK, etc. all were considered normal. "To Kill a Mockingbird" was a book that talked about how normal such attitudes were (and still are in parts of the South) White supremacy has been denormalized and it is dying says that continued denormalization does work. In Durham, NC a confederate statue was pulled down. In the video, white people were seen abusing it. White people. That is what denormalization looks like.
- masonic 9y ago
  That strategy worked so well in 1930s Europe (not just Germany). Extremist views are hard to fight when they are safely hidden away. Like any infection, it's best to expose them to the light of day. It's more effective to point and laugh than to throw projectiles and yell. (Had that strategy been employed in 1923, there would have been no Mein Kampf.)
  - irishasaurus 9y ago
    Riiiiiiight, that's why underground groups on the far left like anarchists and communists were so successful in Poland, Spain, Greece and elsewhere. The far right was normalized and that's how they grew their ranks. It was the editor that published Mein Kampf as well as Hitler. It was the Italian media and the futurists that helped Mussolini gain power. This isn't about censorship, this is about how fascists can co-opt the democratic process and rise to power. How fascism was covered by the media http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-journalists-covered-rise-mussolini-hitler-180961407/ http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-journalists-covere... The myth of political correctness https://thinkprogress.org/the-phony-debate-about-political-correctness-f81da03b3bdb/ https://thinkprogress.org/the-phony-debate-about-political-c... What normalization looks like today https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/normalization-lesson-munich-post/ https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/normalization-lesson-mun...
- cabalamat 9y ago
  > Allowing hate groups "above ground" normalizes their behavior. It doesn't gain them support. Putting their views in the spotlight demonstrates what sort of people they are, and helps combat them. For example, the far-right British National Party had two seats in the European parliament from 2009-2014, but it didn't do them any good.
cooper12 9y ago
As they should. It's important in Trump's America to demonstrate that this kind of open bigotry still isn't acceptable and that a civilized society will not provide a platform for literal Nazis and their hateful rhetoric.
irishasaurus 9y ago
Good they should hide. We don't want these people preaching radicalism in our public spaces, where they can start recruiting more people. They should be banned from the mainstream internet and go back to the crappy little geosites they were stuck in until 2014. All I see on facebook these days are apologists and racists as the top comment on any news site. I see them on my twitter feed. I even see them in dating apps. Nobody wants them there, as they usually encourage a long chain of comments expressing the fact that they're unwelcome. Sometimes one or two are flagged and banned. A week later, another little network is built up again and the loud and extreme few are handed a megaphone. We need better filtering algorithms for this nonsense that operate on a macro level. You can call it censorship if you want. I'm not saying to make it impossible for them to communicate their message, they just should be relegated to doing so from one account at a time. This didn't work out so well, http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/11/17/twitter_is_banning_racist_alt_right_leaders_it_should_explain_exactly_why.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/11/17/twitter_i... This effort is half hearted at best, disorganized in practice https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-safety/controversial-harmful-and-hateful-speech-on-facebook/574430655911054/ https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-safety/controversial... It's been vigilantes doxxing that have had the largest impact, however what they do is illegal and against the terms of service of the apps they're trying to rid of hateful speech. http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.806719 http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.806719 I would love to see more tech leaders actually build intelligent solutions to weeding out hatespeech on the internet. Let them go underground, that's where they belong.
- badwulf 9y ago
  I don't like extremist on either side, the issue is with what you are describing is kind of what China and the Soviet Union did/does. Just think about how would you feel if the radical right would adopt this tactic. If you are cool with companies policing you, you just think about what will happen if some of them become right leaning, would you still agree with them taking a political stance? In my opinion we have the law and we have legislators, private companies should not try to do their job.

I don't know if this does a lot of good for Airbnb, aside from good publicity. Hate groups will go underground. They will still use Airbnb, but they'll hide their activities more.

pm24601 9y ago

And how is this a bad thing? Allowing hate groups "above ground" normalizes their behavior. They should be underground.

sebleon 9y ago
Having hate groups above ground makes it easier to assess size of this problem and fix it.
zachrose 9y ago
Let's imagine there is a just future ahead. How do we get there? Suppress white supremecy from public discussion, and hope it dies out from loneliness in a few generations? Good luck with that. I want white supremacism die out, not white supremacist people themselves. I want their voice in the public dialogue. I want white supremacists to bring their ideology into the public sphere so that it can be visibly argued against. I want white supremacists to experience a change of heart.
- pm24601 9y ago
  > Suppress white supremecy from public discussion, and hope it dies out from loneliness in a few generations? Good luck with that. Actually, ... yes. White supremacy used to be the norm. Slavery, lynch mobs, KKK, etc. all were considered normal. "To Kill a Mockingbird" was a book that talked about how normal such attitudes were (and still are in parts of the South) White supremacy has been denormalized and it is dying says that continued denormalization does work. In Durham, NC a confederate statue was pulled down. In the video, white people were seen abusing it. White people. That is what denormalization looks like.
masonic 9y ago
That strategy worked so well in 1930s Europe (not just Germany). Extremist views are hard to fight when they are safely hidden away. Like any infection, it's best to expose them to the light of day. It's more effective to point and laugh than to throw projectiles and yell. (Had that strategy been employed in 1923, there would have been no Mein Kampf.)
- irishasaurus 9y ago
  Riiiiiiight, that's why underground groups on the far left like anarchists and communists were so successful in Poland, Spain, Greece and elsewhere. The far right was normalized and that's how they grew their ranks. It was the editor that published Mein Kampf as well as Hitler. It was the Italian media and the futurists that helped Mussolini gain power. This isn't about censorship, this is about how fascists can co-opt the democratic process and rise to power. How fascism was covered by the media http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-journalists-covered-rise-mussolini-hitler-180961407/ http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-journalists-covere... The myth of political correctness https://thinkprogress.org/the-phony-debate-about-political-correctness-f81da03b3bdb/ https://thinkprogress.org/the-phony-debate-about-political-c... What normalization looks like today https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/normalization-lesson-munich-post/ https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/normalization-lesson-mun...
cabalamat 9y ago
> Allowing hate groups "above ground" normalizes their behavior. It doesn't gain them support. Putting their views in the spotlight demonstrates what sort of people they are, and helps combat them. For example, the far-right British National Party had two seats in the European parliament from 2009-2014, but it didn't do them any good.

cooper12 9y ago

As they should. It's important in Trump's America to demonstrate that this kind of open bigotry still isn't acceptable and that a civilized society will not provide a platform for literal Nazis and their hateful rhetoric.

irishasaurus 9y ago

Good they should hide. We don't want these people preaching radicalism in our public spaces, where they can start recruiting more people. They should be banned from the mainstream internet and go back to the crappy little geosites they were stuck in until 2014. All I see on facebook these days are apologists and racists as the top comment on any news site. I see them on my twitter feed. I even see them in dating apps. Nobody wants them there, as they usually encourage a long chain of comments expressing the fact that they're unwelcome. Sometimes one or two are flagged and banned. A week later, another little network is built up again and the loud and extreme few are handed a megaphone. We need better filtering algorithms for this nonsense that operate on a macro level. You can call it censorship if you want. I'm not saying to make it impossible for them to communicate their message, they just should be relegated to doing so from one account at a time. This didn't work out so well, http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/11/17/twitter_is_banning_racist_alt_right_leaders_it_should_explain_exactly_why.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2016/11/17/twitter_i... This effort is half hearted at best, disorganized in practice https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-safety/controversial-harmful-and-hateful-speech-on-facebook/574430655911054/ https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-safety/controversial... It's been vigilantes doxxing that have had the largest impact, however what they do is illegal and against the terms of service of the apps they're trying to rid of hateful speech. http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.806719 http://www.haaretz.com/us-news/.premium-1.806719 I would love to see more tech leaders actually build intelligent solutions to weeding out hatespeech on the internet. Let them go underground, that's where they belong.

badwulf 9y ago
I don't like extremist on either side, the issue is with what you are describing is kind of what China and the Soviet Union did/does. Just think about how would you feel if the radical right would adopt this tactic. If you are cool with companies policing you, you just think about what will happen if some of them become right leaning, would you still agree with them taking a political stance? In my opinion we have the law and we have legislators, private companies should not try to do their job.