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> Besides Donald Trump, there isn't and hasn't been even the slightest possibility of a meaningful [word used neutrally] political upheaval Be reminded that we

by jMyles 9y ago

> Besides Donald Trump, there isn't and hasn't been even the slightest possibility of a meaningful [word used neutrally] political upheaval Be reminded that we had a revolution less than two and a half centuries ago. And a very tumultuous last few decades. I think that MLK represented a very real possibility of meaningful political upheaval. > 2) American police have a much longer history of dealing with, and adapting their policies to the governance of, high-violence subpopulations like (southern) Italians, the Irish, and Africans. This is obviously true. The current character of professional, paramilitary police in the USA is traceable in no small part to slave patrols. Another difference is that the command structure of American police is different even than other common law countries - police (as distinct from sheriffs) are ranked in a paramilitary totem rather than a constabulary structure, have wide discretion in contrary to Peelianism, and in some cases are afforded greater arrest powers than the citizenry at large.

mitochondrion 9y ago
> Be reminded that we had a revolution less than two and a half centuries ago. Sure. By landlords and merchant interests. In short, people like James Madison, as quoted in a comment below. "In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority.” Economically, Trump is a lot more like those "second sons" of English aristocracy than he is to the modern-day, progressive elites from whom he’s trying to wrest control. > And a very tumultuous last few decades. I think that MLK represented a very real possibility of meaningful political upheaval. You evidently haven’t looked into the origins of the NAACP. Who do you think backed the Rosa Parks court case and all that? There were a bunch of government grants, as well. As always and forever, the question is: where did the money come from? > police (as distinct from sheriffs) are ranked in a paramilitary totem rather than a constabulary structure, have wide discretion in contrary to Peelianism, and in some cases are afforded greater arrest powers than the citizenry at large I’m not quite sure what Peelianism is, but otherwise that’s an excellent point. There’s also, now that I think about it, the fact that becoming a police officer is quite often a “retirement” job for ex-soldier veterans, meaning that simply by virtue of their presence they bring military training and military attitudes developed and honed in their time in some sandy, godforsaken Middle Eastern country somewhere back here to civilization. And that’s even if they’re otherwise perfectly fine people who don’t mean to do it. Some programming, once learned, just doesn’t go away.
- jMyles 9y ago
  > I’m not quite sure what Peelianism is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles
  - mitochondrion 9y ago
    What a great ideal. I'd love to live in a society like that. It seems like it wouldn't work, though, if you're living side-by-side with people who just don't give a damn about police authority, like Italian mobsters or some such.
    - jsjohnst 9y ago
      What's with the rampant use of nationality / race / ethnicity in a negative context? Is there something special about organized crime from Italy vs elsewhere that it was relevant to point out? Parent post taken out of context doesn't seem so bad, but I challenge you to take a couple hour break from HN and then come back and reread your comments on this thread. If you come back with an open mind, I assure you you'll see what others meant when they suggested you may be racist / colonialist.
      - mitochondrion 9y ago
        Please don't misunderstand. I'm neither a racist nor a colonialist — nor a nationalist, for that matter. To the extent that I believe in anything, I believe in civility, meritocracy, and Darwinism. The country and civilization my ancestors built is dead, and there's no bringing it back. But we will build something new, something bigger and better and stronger, and instead of beginning with the words, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...", it will begin with just these four: "The Know-Nothings were right."

by jMyles 9y ago

mitochondrion 9y ago

> Be reminded that we had a revolution less than two and a half centuries ago. Sure. By landlords and merchant interests. In short, people like James Madison, as quoted in a comment below. "In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority.” Economically, Trump is a lot more like those "second sons" of English aristocracy than he is to the modern-day, progressive elites from whom he’s trying to wrest control. > And a very tumultuous last few decades. I think that MLK represented a very real possibility of meaningful political upheaval. You evidently haven’t looked into the origins of the NAACP. Who do you think backed the Rosa Parks court case and all that? There were a bunch of government grants, as well. As always and forever, the question is: where did the money come from? > police (as distinct from sheriffs) are ranked in a paramilitary totem rather than a constabulary structure, have wide discretion in contrary to Peelianism, and in some cases are afforded greater arrest powers than the citizenry at large I’m not quite sure what Peelianism is, but otherwise that’s an excellent point. There’s also, now that I think about it, the fact that becoming a police officer is quite often a “retirement” job for ex-soldier veterans, meaning that simply by virtue of their presence they bring military training and military attitudes developed and honed in their time in some sandy, godforsaken Middle Eastern country somewhere back here to civilization. And that’s even if they’re otherwise perfectly fine people who don’t mean to do it. Some programming, once learned, just doesn’t go away.

jMyles 9y ago
> I’m not quite sure what Peelianism is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peelian_principles
- mitochondrion 9y ago
  What a great ideal. I'd love to live in a society like that. It seems like it wouldn't work, though, if you're living side-by-side with people who just don't give a damn about police authority, like Italian mobsters or some such.
  - jsjohnst 9y ago
    What's with the rampant use of nationality / race / ethnicity in a negative context? Is there something special about organized crime from Italy vs elsewhere that it was relevant to point out? Parent post taken out of context doesn't seem so bad, but I challenge you to take a couple hour break from HN and then come back and reread your comments on this thread. If you come back with an open mind, I assure you you'll see what others meant when they suggested you may be racist / colonialist.
    - mitochondrion 9y ago
      Please don't misunderstand. I'm neither a racist nor a colonialist — nor a nationalist, for that matter. To the extent that I believe in anything, I believe in civility, meritocracy, and Darwinism. The country and civilization my ancestors built is dead, and there's no bringing it back. But we will build something new, something bigger and better and stronger, and instead of beginning with the words, "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal...", it will begin with just these four: "The Know-Nothings were right."