5 ms·

Once you go full cynic you start thinking govts are created to protect the wealthy and wars are instigated to generate more wealth. Then they call you a conspi

by geggam 9y ago

Once you go full cynic you start thinking govts are created to protect the wealthy and wars are instigated to generate more wealth. Then they call you a conspiracy nut so society ostracizes you and ignores your observations

smokeyj 9y ago
Airlines are accountable to the market. Cops are accountable to their ego. Soon as you figure out someone's motivation their actions become obvious. Edit: if precincts got paid based on customer satisfaction we'd see an overnight change making the police force unrecognizable. Crazy how money do that.
- oneplane 9y ago
  Regarding the money aspect: for someone living in western Europe, the police budget and income system in the USA seems crazy. How could they possibly do that they are supposed to do (uphold the law) with a system that forces them to select their actions based on the money it will generate for them.
  - jMyles 9y ago
    What do you mean here? Fines?
    - macintux 9y ago
      Asset forfeiture is arguably more pernicious than fines.
      - jMyles 9y ago
        Oh heck yeah - it just wasn't clear to me if that's what oneplane was talking about.
  - smokeyj 9y ago
    "Upholding the law" is such a subjective idea. An officer can uphold the law by running a speed traps and earning the department more money. They could alternatively do difficult investigatory work looking into violent crimes that would deliver more value to the community. If a community is the employer of officers it seems strange that officers would be held accountable to anything besides the needs of the community. Developers live in a world of scrum, points, and delivering value. I think whoever pays for the officers salary should be the "product owner" of the police department.
    - mitochondrion 9y ago
      "I think whoever pays for the officers salary should be the "product owner" of the police department" Like what, the local governor/censor/consul/manor lord?
  - dankohn1 9y ago
    Look particularly at the system that Ferguson used to generate most of their revenues from traffic tickets and resulting fines from African-Americans: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-tickets-fines/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-ti... As an American, it is shocking and appalling to see that we have recreated a version of debtors prison.
jMyles 9y ago
> Once you go full cynic I am not this - I am very optimistic about the human condition. However... > govts are created to protect the wealthy and wars are instigated to generate more wealth I think this is obvious at this point. And I also think that our species is entering an age in which we'll be able to do without these lifeboats.
wuch 9y ago
"In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority." -- James Madison
fencepost 9y ago
> Then they call you a conspiracy nut so society ostracizes you and ignores your observations And then the party in power tries to eliminate the thing that lets middle-aged startup founders/small business owners get health insurance so they can cut taxes on the top 0.5% of income earners.
- tyingq 9y ago
  I pay $2300/month as a small business owner for health insurance for a single employee + family. I was well into my 20's before my entire salary was that much. The cost was ~$1000/month in 2009 or so, which I considered bad at the time. I fault both parties for the ridiculous situation we're in regarding health care. The ACA was doomed no matter who won the last election. Not because of how it was structured, but because it didn't address the core cost problems. Not defending Trump's actions. But, at best, he's damaging an already dying system.
  - fencepost 9y ago
    Broken in many ways? Absolutely. Fixable on a technical basis? Probably. Fixable in the real world? Not as long as it's a Democrat (regardless of race) getting credit for the Heritage Foundation's plan. As for costs, I don't know your state or situation but that does seem high. In Illinois for an individual plan with BCBS (PPO, larger of their provider lists) I'm paying under 500 non subsidized though if the exchanges still exist next year I expect it to rise $50-100. Edit: clarity
    - tyingq 9y ago
      Employee + family is typically 3 to 4 times the cost of employee-only. I do have a high end plan.
      - fencepost 9y ago
        Thanks, wasn't sure of the impact of family - for the couple years it was my wife and I on exchange plans the cost was basically just doubled.
dwighttk 9y ago
Picketty ignored the effects of WWI and WWII because they were so destructive of capital they made his case look weaker.

by geggam 9y ago

smokeyj 9y ago

Airlines are accountable to the market. Cops are accountable to their ego. Soon as you figure out someone's motivation their actions become obvious. Edit: if precincts got paid based on customer satisfaction we'd see an overnight change making the police force unrecognizable. Crazy how money do that.

oneplane 9y ago
Regarding the money aspect: for someone living in western Europe, the police budget and income system in the USA seems crazy. How could they possibly do that they are supposed to do (uphold the law) with a system that forces them to select their actions based on the money it will generate for them.
- jMyles 9y ago
  What do you mean here? Fines?
  - macintux 9y ago
    Asset forfeiture is arguably more pernicious than fines.
    - jMyles 9y ago
      Oh heck yeah - it just wasn't clear to me if that's what oneplane was talking about.
- smokeyj 9y ago
  "Upholding the law" is such a subjective idea. An officer can uphold the law by running a speed traps and earning the department more money. They could alternatively do difficult investigatory work looking into violent crimes that would deliver more value to the community. If a community is the employer of officers it seems strange that officers would be held accountable to anything besides the needs of the community. Developers live in a world of scrum, points, and delivering value. I think whoever pays for the officers salary should be the "product owner" of the police department.
  - mitochondrion 9y ago
    "I think whoever pays for the officers salary should be the "product owner" of the police department" Like what, the local governor/censor/consul/manor lord?
- dankohn1 9y ago
  Look particularly at the system that Ferguson used to generate most of their revenues from traffic tickets and resulting fines from African-Americans: http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-tickets-fines/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-ti... As an American, it is shocking and appalling to see that we have recreated a version of debtors prison.

jMyles 9y ago

> Once you go full cynic I am not this - I am very optimistic about the human condition. However... > govts are created to protect the wealthy and wars are instigated to generate more wealth I think this is obvious at this point. And I also think that our species is entering an age in which we'll be able to do without these lifeboats.

wuch 9y ago

"In England, at this day, if elections were open to all classes of people, the property of landed proprietors would be insecure. An agrarian law would soon take place. If these observations be just, our government ought to secure the permanent interests of the country against innovation. Landholders ought to have a share in the government, to support these invaluable interests, and to balance and check the other. They ought to be so constituted as to protect the minority of the opulent against the majority." -- James Madison

fencepost 9y ago

> Then they call you a conspiracy nut so society ostracizes you and ignores your observations And then the party in power tries to eliminate the thing that lets middle-aged startup founders/small business owners get health insurance so they can cut taxes on the top 0.5% of income earners.

tyingq 9y ago
I pay $2300/month as a small business owner for health insurance for a single employee + family. I was well into my 20's before my entire salary was that much. The cost was ~$1000/month in 2009 or so, which I considered bad at the time. I fault both parties for the ridiculous situation we're in regarding health care. The ACA was doomed no matter who won the last election. Not because of how it was structured, but because it didn't address the core cost problems. Not defending Trump's actions. But, at best, he's damaging an already dying system.
- fencepost 9y ago
  Broken in many ways? Absolutely. Fixable on a technical basis? Probably. Fixable in the real world? Not as long as it's a Democrat (regardless of race) getting credit for the Heritage Foundation's plan. As for costs, I don't know your state or situation but that does seem high. In Illinois for an individual plan with BCBS (PPO, larger of their provider lists) I'm paying under 500 non subsidized though if the exchanges still exist next year I expect it to rise $50-100. Edit: clarity
  - tyingq 9y ago
    Employee + family is typically 3 to 4 times the cost of employee-only. I do have a high end plan.
    - fencepost 9y ago
      Thanks, wasn't sure of the impact of family - for the couple years it was my wife and I on exchange plans the cost was basically just doubled.

dwighttk 9y ago

Picketty ignored the effects of WWI and WWII because they were so destructive of capital they made his case look weaker.