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Do anyone think in a language? Do constructed sentences travel in your head? It doesn't make any sense to me and do not correspond to my experience of thinking.

Do anyone think in a language? Do constructed sentences travel in your head? It doesn't make any sense to me and do not correspond to my experience of thinking... If I'd try to describe my thinking, it would be about making connections, groking concepts, it'd be more graphical than verbal (but is neither). But I very much doubt I'm any special snowflake, am I wrong thinking humans do not think in a specific language?

vitalique 9y ago
How many languages do you speak more or less fluently?
- williamdclt 9y ago
  2 fluently (French and English), and a barbarism of italian
jfaucett 9y ago
> Do anyone think in a language? I speak 3 languages, 2 natively and the third for my entire adult life. I can get by in a couple more to the point where most people would probably claim they could speak them, and I agree with you, I rarely if ever think in language. I mean I can even remember a few times where I was thinking in some language and I quit because I noticed it was slowing me down having to actually put words on the concepts. Usually, the only time I think in language is when I have to be very precise with how I'm communicating to someone i.e. giving a presentation or negotiating some important matter and I need internal feedback on how the sentence or phrase is going to sound and work in the context I'm about to use it in. For instance, let's take an example like studying some result in a dataset. Let's say its a property like price of an item. I will not be thinking in language X when I'm studying this and its relation to say "weekday", its usually some kind of vague geometric movement or something associated with my innate concepts of "price" and "weekday". I suspect most people are actually like this, they just don't notice it as much because whenever they do switch to language mode its either a much more diliberate process (second language learners) or transparent (monolinguals).
StavrosK 9y ago
Yes, you are. It seems to me that most people think in language, to the point where it's weird if you tell them you don't think in one. I used to think in language too (yes, I actually did have a voice narrating my thoughts inside my head), but I grew out of it. I realize now that the thoughts are happening anyway, and that narrating them was just a way for my brain to be kept busy (ie the narration doesn't really matter). I was trying to explore this the other day, and managed to think complex thoughts related to solving a work problem entirely without language, while listening to an audiobook. Listening to the book probably helped, as my brain was half too busy understanding it to form its own speech.
- williamdclt 9y ago
  This is very new and surprising to me! When trying to think in language, I feel like I need to think about thinking in language (which doesn't make any sense), and am thinking really slowly, like trying to walk while stopping between each step.
  - StavrosK 9y ago
    Hmm, that's odd. Thinking in a language is like talking, only you're talking internally rather than externally. Presumably when you're talking out loud about a problem you don't have to think/talk slowly, no?
- warent 9y ago
  English is my only language. When I read, I definitely narrate each word in my head. But something very interesting that your post has just brought me to realize is that I read code very differently from plain English. In fact, I barely have any mental narration for code at all; mostly it's this morphing blob of mental imagery and intuition. Maybe this explains in part why, while I'm a very slow plain-English reader, I actually read/parse code faster than average.
  - Cerium 9y ago
    The narration might not be mental at all. Many people speak without breathing while reading, you will notice it is your throat gets sore or tired after a long session reading a good book.
johnchristopher 9y ago
It has been studied (neurolinguistic among other science fields). Personally it's a mix. I use sentences but also some kind of bricks that fit into each other (that's also how I do basic arithmetic). It can also be a mix of both.
herbst 9y ago
I definitely do. Mostly in the context of writing and speaking but I also find myself thinking English when I am familiar with a concept in English but not in German. It's more subtle but I noticed it several times
davidmurdoch 9y ago
Do you have aphantasia?
- williamdclt 9y ago
  I didn't know the concept, looked it up, and it doesn't seems that I do
- williamdclt 9y ago
  While looking it up, I stumbled across an article from someone who has aphantasia, and say this [0]: "I do have the ‘milk voice’—that flat, inner monologue that has no texture or sound, which we use to tell ourselves: “Remember to pick up milk.”" I don't have such a voice, I think about the concept of remembering to pick up milk. There's no verbalization, and it seems really weird to imagine it: when beginning your inner sentence, you already know what you'll be "telling", so why continue to "tell" it to yourself? https://www.facebook.com/notes/blake-ross/aphantasia-how-it-feels-to-be-blind-in-your-mind/10156834777480504/ https://www.facebook.com/notes/blake-ross/aphantasia-how-it-...
  - davidmurdoch 9y ago
    Fascinating! Despite knowing what my inner monologue has to say before it's said, I can't stop it from being internally verbalized. I'm definitely one to "think before speaking", often to the degree where I'm unable (or maybe just unwilling) to contribute to fast-paced group conversations since I feel like I need to think about what I'll say first. Once I start speaking my "milk voice" can continue ahead of my speech but it usually doesn't. When it does, it can sometimes feel like what I can only describe as an out-of-body experience... where I'll be speaking, but my milk voice will just be making an observation about what I'm saying and the reactions of those I'm speaking to, all while I'm fully aware this is happening. Recently, I was in a meeting and was speaking, while internally I was making "milk voice" observations of others' attention and posture, and then observed my own crossed arms (which to many business execs communicates a lack of confidence), so I then uncrossed them and sat up taller. Not sure if I'm an outlier here or not, though.
dgut 9y ago
This is a claim that is constantly repeated in linguistics but that makes little sense. It would be very odd if the brain needed something as ineffective as _language_ to think. Language is itself a result of our actual ability to think. Most likely we tend to narrate what we think, why the brain does this is unknown to me.
- seszett 9y ago
  > It would be very odd if the brain needed something as ineffective as _language_ to think. Not that much. I wouldn't be surprised if the invention of human language enabled us to use an improved way of thinking, by serialising thoughts more efficiently or some other kind of mechanism. I don't think I use language most of the time (unless thinking about a discussion specifically, and then it's not always in the same language the discussion will be/was carried in, by the way) but I do write things down when I need to really think about them precisely and it helps a lot.
Broken_Hippo 9y ago
I most definitely do. It varies in intensity and complexity: Sometimes it is definite, full sentences. Sometimes it is more a "shorthand" version of english, definitely still the "inner voice" yet it takes a few moments to translate into spoken words.
wudangmonk 9y ago
I remember how my inner voice went away. I was looking into the whole speed reading thing and one of the main points was getting rid of subvocalization while reading. The author of the book explained it that we do complex and sequential actions all the time without the need to tell ourselves what we are doing and what to do next. It made sense to me so I went with it to try and speed up my reading. I would catch myself every time I started to sub-vocalize and try not to do it. Eventually I did the same when talking to myself. I would internally say to myself "why did you need to tell yourself that?", eventually it just went away. Maybe talking to yourself could be an artifact left behind from the time you first start learning how to read and were told to practice reading by reading to yourself.

vitalique 9y ago

How many languages do you speak more or less fluently?

williamdclt 9y ago
2 fluently (French and English), and a barbarism of italian

jfaucett 9y ago

> Do anyone think in a language? I speak 3 languages, 2 natively and the third for my entire adult life. I can get by in a couple more to the point where most people would probably claim they could speak them, and I agree with you, I rarely if ever think in language. I mean I can even remember a few times where I was thinking in some language and I quit because I noticed it was slowing me down having to actually put words on the concepts. Usually, the only time I think in language is when I have to be very precise with how I'm communicating to someone i.e. giving a presentation or negotiating some important matter and I need internal feedback on how the sentence or phrase is going to sound and work in the context I'm about to use it in. For instance, let's take an example like studying some result in a dataset. Let's say its a property like price of an item. I will not be thinking in language X when I'm studying this and its relation to say "weekday", its usually some kind of vague geometric movement or something associated with my innate concepts of "price" and "weekday". I suspect most people are actually like this, they just don't notice it as much because whenever they do switch to language mode its either a much more diliberate process (second language learners) or transparent (monolinguals).

StavrosK 9y ago

Yes, you are. It seems to me that most people think in language, to the point where it's weird if you tell them you don't think in one. I used to think in language too (yes, I actually did have a voice narrating my thoughts inside my head), but I grew out of it. I realize now that the thoughts are happening anyway, and that narrating them was just a way for my brain to be kept busy (ie the narration doesn't really matter). I was trying to explore this the other day, and managed to think complex thoughts related to solving a work problem entirely without language, while listening to an audiobook. Listening to the book probably helped, as my brain was half too busy understanding it to form its own speech.

williamdclt 9y ago
This is very new and surprising to me! When trying to think in language, I feel like I need to think about thinking in language (which doesn't make any sense), and am thinking really slowly, like trying to walk while stopping between each step.
- StavrosK 9y ago
  Hmm, that's odd. Thinking in a language is like talking, only you're talking internally rather than externally. Presumably when you're talking out loud about a problem you don't have to think/talk slowly, no?
warent 9y ago
English is my only language. When I read, I definitely narrate each word in my head. But something very interesting that your post has just brought me to realize is that I read code very differently from plain English. In fact, I barely have any mental narration for code at all; mostly it's this morphing blob of mental imagery and intuition. Maybe this explains in part why, while I'm a very slow plain-English reader, I actually read/parse code faster than average.
- Cerium 9y ago
  The narration might not be mental at all. Many people speak without breathing while reading, you will notice it is your throat gets sore or tired after a long session reading a good book.

johnchristopher 9y ago

It has been studied (neurolinguistic among other science fields). Personally it's a mix. I use sentences but also some kind of bricks that fit into each other (that's also how I do basic arithmetic). It can also be a mix of both.

herbst 9y ago

I definitely do. Mostly in the context of writing and speaking but I also find myself thinking English when I am familiar with a concept in English but not in German. It's more subtle but I noticed it several times

davidmurdoch 9y ago

Do you have aphantasia?

williamdclt 9y ago
I didn't know the concept, looked it up, and it doesn't seems that I do
williamdclt 9y ago
While looking it up, I stumbled across an article from someone who has aphantasia, and say this [0]: "I do have the ‘milk voice’—that flat, inner monologue that has no texture or sound, which we use to tell ourselves: “Remember to pick up milk.”" I don't have such a voice, I think about the concept of remembering to pick up milk. There's no verbalization, and it seems really weird to imagine it: when beginning your inner sentence, you already know what you'll be "telling", so why continue to "tell" it to yourself? https://www.facebook.com/notes/blake-ross/aphantasia-how-it-feels-to-be-blind-in-your-mind/10156834777480504/ https://www.facebook.com/notes/blake-ross/aphantasia-how-it-...
- davidmurdoch 9y ago
  Fascinating! Despite knowing what my inner monologue has to say before it's said, I can't stop it from being internally verbalized. I'm definitely one to "think before speaking", often to the degree where I'm unable (or maybe just unwilling) to contribute to fast-paced group conversations since I feel like I need to think about what I'll say first. Once I start speaking my "milk voice" can continue ahead of my speech but it usually doesn't. When it does, it can sometimes feel like what I can only describe as an out-of-body experience... where I'll be speaking, but my milk voice will just be making an observation about what I'm saying and the reactions of those I'm speaking to, all while I'm fully aware this is happening. Recently, I was in a meeting and was speaking, while internally I was making "milk voice" observations of others' attention and posture, and then observed my own crossed arms (which to many business execs communicates a lack of confidence), so I then uncrossed them and sat up taller. Not sure if I'm an outlier here or not, though.

dgut 9y ago

This is a claim that is constantly repeated in linguistics but that makes little sense. It would be very odd if the brain needed something as ineffective as _language_ to think. Language is itself a result of our actual ability to think. Most likely we tend to narrate what we think, why the brain does this is unknown to me.

seszett 9y ago
> It would be very odd if the brain needed something as ineffective as _language_ to think. Not that much. I wouldn't be surprised if the invention of human language enabled us to use an improved way of thinking, by serialising thoughts more efficiently or some other kind of mechanism. I don't think I use language most of the time (unless thinking about a discussion specifically, and then it's not always in the same language the discussion will be/was carried in, by the way) but I do write things down when I need to really think about them precisely and it helps a lot.

Broken_Hippo 9y ago

I most definitely do. It varies in intensity and complexity: Sometimes it is definite, full sentences. Sometimes it is more a "shorthand" version of english, definitely still the "inner voice" yet it takes a few moments to translate into spoken words.

wudangmonk 9y ago

I remember how my inner voice went away. I was looking into the whole speed reading thing and one of the main points was getting rid of subvocalization while reading. The author of the book explained it that we do complex and sequential actions all the time without the need to tell ourselves what we are doing and what to do next. It made sense to me so I went with it to try and speed up my reading. I would catch myself every time I started to sub-vocalize and try not to do it. Eventually I did the same when talking to myself. I would internally say to myself "why did you need to tell yourself that?", eventually it just went away. Maybe talking to yourself could be an artifact left behind from the time you first start learning how to read and were told to practice reading by reading to yourself.