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> Well, for one thing, it's the best model our society makes available for raising and supporting kids. You're not required to have kids. I guess what I'm try

by Aaargh20318 9y ago

> Well, for one thing, it's the best model our society makes available for raising and supporting kids. You're not required to have kids. I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why even start a relationship if you don't get anything out of it. Never mind getting to the point where you start producing kids.

matz1 9y ago
Because sometimes you just can't help it, or very difficult not to.
- throwanem 9y ago
  I don't see how.
  - matz1 9y ago
    Relationship can be exciting, it can be incredibly difficult to resist.
    - drdeadringer 9y ago
      To be fair, that would be getting something out of it.
throwanem 9y ago
> You're not required to have kids. No, but a lot of people want to. (A lot of people have kids without the formality of a relationship, too, but that's a whole 'nother kind of problem.) I guess I'd say that for most people there are a lot of reasons to want to be in a relationship - good reasons and bad ones alike. With rare exception, nobody goes into a relationship expecting that it won't improve their life in some way, and if you're not seeing what you might get out of one, then I can't see any reason why you should start one. It seems like a lot of people do eventually discover that they don't get out of a given relationship what they hoped they might, or what they previously did - but that's also a whole 'nother kind of problem, and because it often involves strongly felt responsibilities to people other than oneself, a kind that is rarely easy to solve even if there's no clear way to incrementally improve upon the status quo. I don't think I've done a very good job explaining it here, but I'm not sure how I might do a better one.
- goldfeld 9y ago
  Or most people don't put as much into a relationship as it would take to realize their goal? When you marry or have kids with someone, that someone is supposed to be your first priority in life. It's kind of like thinking about religious service, but not necessarily including that spiritual edge to matrimony. Kids aren't that first priority, because kids need both parents to be fulfilled, and the couple is supposed to be those who best fulfill each other. Your plan of marriage shouldn't be centered on what you'll get out of it, but what your significant other will get of it, because you are specially positioned to be that provider of happiness and comfort and vice-versa. Live for the other and your own happiness is reciprocally secured.
  - throwanem 9y ago
    That's the ideal, sure. It doesn't reliably work out that way even for those couples who go into it with exactly the intent you describe, though, and it only takes one to defect - although I agree that both often do.

matz1 9y ago

Because sometimes you just can't help it, or very difficult not to.

throwanem 9y ago
I don't see how.
- matz1 9y ago
  Relationship can be exciting, it can be incredibly difficult to resist.
  - drdeadringer 9y ago
    To be fair, that would be getting something out of it.

throwanem 9y ago

> You're not required to have kids. No, but a lot of people want to. (A lot of people have kids without the formality of a relationship, too, but that's a whole 'nother kind of problem.) I guess I'd say that for most people there are a lot of reasons to want to be in a relationship - good reasons and bad ones alike. With rare exception, nobody goes into a relationship expecting that it won't improve their life in some way, and if you're not seeing what you might get out of one, then I can't see any reason why you should start one. It seems like a lot of people do eventually discover that they don't get out of a given relationship what they hoped they might, or what they previously did - but that's also a whole 'nother kind of problem, and because it often involves strongly felt responsibilities to people other than oneself, a kind that is rarely easy to solve even if there's no clear way to incrementally improve upon the status quo. I don't think I've done a very good job explaining it here, but I'm not sure how I might do a better one.

goldfeld 9y ago
Or most people don't put as much into a relationship as it would take to realize their goal? When you marry or have kids with someone, that someone is supposed to be your first priority in life. It's kind of like thinking about religious service, but not necessarily including that spiritual edge to matrimony. Kids aren't that first priority, because kids need both parents to be fulfilled, and the couple is supposed to be those who best fulfill each other. Your plan of marriage shouldn't be centered on what you'll get out of it, but what your significant other will get of it, because you are specially positioned to be that provider of happiness and comfort and vice-versa. Live for the other and your own happiness is reciprocally secured.
- throwanem 9y ago
  That's the ideal, sure. It doesn't reliably work out that way even for those couples who go into it with exactly the intent you describe, though, and it only takes one to defect - although I agree that both often do.