20 ms·

Why Are Police Officers More Dangerous Than Airplanes?

61 points by dankohn1 9y ago

Tomsredwagon 9y ago
The next you want to think that a police officer may have been too on edge, consider this https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb7_1502405948 https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb7_1502405948
- Sir_Substance 9y ago
  It's less dangerous to be a police officer than it is to be a garbage man: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-top-10-dangerous-jobs-country-tanks/ http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-top-10-dangerous-jobs-c... If a garbage man shoots someone, he gets a criminal trial, same as everyone else. If it's a defensible shooting, he'll be exonerated. What is the point of society paying for a police program, if not to be better trained and better equipped personnel to handle these kinds of dangers? Equip police with recording equipment to maximize their ability to justify and defend their actions, and then remove all special provisions that allows them to kill someone and not stand a full criminal trial.
- jMyles 9y ago
  A liveleak video depicting a single graphic anecdote is about as far from useful data as a piece of multimedia can be.
  - IanDrake 9y ago
    Data? Is that how you think the average human mind works? It's fine for policy, but that's not how we think of risk.
  - somenewacc 9y ago
    This is an example, that you should consider as a possibility.
    - calvano915 9y ago
      It's possible the officer's approach to the situation/suspect contributed to causing the result. Perhaps use a whole different approach (less aggressive and more conversational), or tase the guy sooner, or back off until you have backup before continuing the encounter. The outcome might've been the same regardless, and the cop did not deserve to get shot, but cops need to realize that just issuing commands aggressively may not be the best approach and the job may require more nuance especially given the target demographic.
    - jMyles 9y ago
      That's not the point. An example of someone being hit by a meteorite in her living room doesn't mean that we need to armor living rooms against extra-planetary objects. I think most police officers (those from sane departments) realize that they are unlikely to be victims of situations like the one depicted here. And police officers who are on edge are that way because of poor training, not because of any actual risk from their career choice.
- thinkfurther 9y ago
  From the article: > The way it works now, civilians often feel like the ones responsible for keeping violence at bay. In May, an African-American journalist named Tonya Jameson was changing the license plates on the used S.U.V. she had recently bought when an off-duty officer accused her of stealing the car — and pointed his gun at her. Ms. Jameson had proof of ownership in a bag that sat on the ground nearby, but she dared not move a muscle. > Ms. Jameson told me that the words “black people can die like this,” kept running through her head. “That was my mantra. I knew I had to be careful not to freak him out. If he killed me, no one would know what really happened.” > She spoke in a soothing voice, explaining to the police officer that if he looked in the bag, he would find the bill of sale. Instead he kept his gun trained on her and called in reinforcements. When someone is "on the edge" like that, in a situation like that, I'll consider therapy in prison for them, but that's about it.
- ringaroundthetx 9y ago
  yes, so our ONLY solution is collective punishment against the entire population and anyone happening to be visiting the country. thats not intended to be a strawman argument, it is intended to be hyperbole because the current outcome is indefensible.
ColinWright 9y ago
My wife's uncle is a trained engineer, worked in a high-level mergers and acquisitions division of a well-known company, and is an aerobatics pilot. He says that the reason flying is so safe compared with any other form of transport is because of the ubiquitous and relentless use of check-lists, and the deep investigation of every incident. After each incident the check-lists are re-visited to see if the causes could be prevented. The investigations are carried out by independent bodies with their only aim being to find the truth. When I wondered out loud once why such an approach isn't taken for other services and industries, a friend of mine - born forty with cynicism to spare - said "Rich people fly." Perhaps the same approach to incidents in the maritime environment, and incidents involving the police, isn't taken because somehow the people most affected are seen as somehow not really worth the time and effort. It's not the rich people, the people in power, who are affected. I really hope that's not true, because if it is, nothing will change.
- geggam 9y ago
  Once you go full cynic you start thinking govts are created to protect the wealthy and wars are instigated to generate more wealth. Then they call you a conspiracy nut so society ostracizes you and ignores your observations
  - smokeyj 9y ago
    Airlines are accountable to the market. Cops are accountable to their ego. Soon as you figure out someone's motivation their actions become obvious. Edit: if precincts got paid based on customer satisfaction we'd see an overnight change making the police force unrecognizable. Crazy how money do that.
    - oneplane 9y ago
      Regarding the money aspect: for someone living in western Europe, the police budget and income system in the USA seems crazy. How could they possibly do that they are supposed to do (uphold the law) with a system that forces them to select their actions based on the money it will generate for them.
jaclaz 9y ago
I am a bit perplexed by the "new technology": >The students created a smartphone app, called Virtual Traffic Stop, that allows him to do just that. After the officer pulls a driver to the side of the road, he would use the app to start a video chat with the driver as a first point of contact, allowing him to observe whether the driver seemed mentally ill or dangerous, notice clues in the interior of the vehicle and review identification documents. Just to name one, I don't have usually a smartphone, or a switched on smartphone, when driving, and the police officer should have a way to find and call my phone number, which not necessarily is linked to the car license plate. And this data would be interesting: >In some cities, when you roll through a stoplight, a camera catches you in the act, and a few weeks later you receive a ticket in the mail. Data suggests that this automatic system is far cheaper than “human” ticketing and reduces pedestrian deaths. And a camera can’t kill people. Undoubtedly it is cheaper, the point is how much it contributes to safety. I confess that I received one of those tickets (the fact that a large number of people received one since seemingly the municipality put the camera and shortened to the bare legal minimum - possibly even less than that - the yellow light time is another thing). Frankly after 2 1/2 months I didn't even remember to have gone through that particular traffic light/intersection, I paid the fine and that was it. By contrast a couple of times that police stopped me, even if they at the end resolved to not fine me, they "stopped my driving" right there, so if I was doing something - if not illegal - "border line" with dangerous they actually prevented me from continuing doing it, by forcefully inserting a "pause".
- Anechoic 9y ago
  >Just to name one, I don't have usually a smartphone, or a switched on smartphone, when driving, and the police officer should have a way to find and call my phone number, which not necessarily is linked to the car license plate. Sure it's a flawed idea, but may result in better ideas. For example, what about integrating that technology into the car itself? Yeah there are problems to be overcome (doesn't help with cars already out on the road, needs to account for spoofing and 4th Amendment considerations), but it is an interesting direction.
  - jaclaz 9y ago
jbmorgado 9y ago
It's incredible how people in the USA keep coming up with excuses about the matter. In the EU police is totally ok in shooting at a non lethal location in the suspect in order to neutralize him, in the USA they shoot to kill. There is just no practical reason for this and statistics prove the EU approach saves suspects lives with no increase to police safety. While you keep denying the obvious you are not going to be able to fix it.
peterwwillis 9y ago
Because planes don't walk around carrying guns and a head full of bias and fear? Because police officers are not multi-million-dollar engineering marvels? What editor fell asleep and allowed this to be posted?
elmar 9y ago
Americans are eight times more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist. http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-killed-nearly-9000-civilians-since-911/218381/ http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-killed-nearly-9000-ci... http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrori...
- acranox 9y ago
  If you exclude 9/11, it's got to be a lot higher. Killings by police are constant, whereas terror attacks are spiky. Like, in the past 10 years, what percentage of days included at least one killing by the police, vs. killing by terrorists. The "eight times" statement is just referring to causalities over a time period, which I think end up over-representing the true danger from terrorists. The businessinsider link does a pretty good job to addressing that point.
microcolonel 9y ago
Because airplanes are very, very safe. That said, police could definitely do a better job. Body cameras may have to be always-on (but queried only for relevant portions, or if the officer is dead) at some point. Currently they seem to be off at crucial times in an encounter.
Animats 9y ago
Few police departments are into internal self-improvement. When they get better, it's usually due to heavy pressure from the outside. Sometimes getting a new police chief from the outside helps. But there's no institutional oversight system to make them better. Some top cops, such as Bratton, have written autobiographies. Improving a police department is mostly hard work, management controls that measure results, better training, firing a few underperformers, and common sense. Traffic stops are a big problem.[1] About 5000 US cops a year are injured during traffic stops, usually by other traffic. About 7 cops per year are shot during traffic stops. The big risk to cops is being run over, not being shot. Some training materials don't get this.[2] [1] http://www.forcescience.org/trafficstop.html http://www.forcescience.org/trafficstop.html [2] http://resources.learningforlife.org/exploring/lawenforcement/study/tstop.pdf http://resources.learningforlife.org/exploring/lawenforcemen...
momomat 9y ago
Wait ... this context is bs. There is an entire human element driving this data. The police interacting with other people. If the driver of every car was a predictable machine then then this is just as preventable as flying. Pilots interact with machines not people. And there are a good number of those 1000 that die that deserved to die and thankfully we have brave people to go after those crazys. This is police hate and criminal pandering with such vague statememts. Is this hacker news or an antifa forum?
- thinkfurther 9y ago
  > Mr. Bell hired his own investigators. They contend that it all began with faulty equipment: Officer Erich Strausbaugh’s holster caught on a cable dangling from one of the cars’ side-view mirrors, so that when he tackled Michael, he felt a powerful tug on his belt. Assuming that the young man had grabbed for his weapon, he called out to his partners, “He’s got my gun.” And then they lied about it. What is brave about that, in this case? Yes, there are uncountable cops doing untold amounts of great "work" (I put it in quotes not to belittle it, but because I think it's more noble than that). I even think the "blue shield" does serve a valid purpose a lot of times, but it's when it's abused that is the problem. And that is a problem. Here's an idea how actual guts might look like: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2652/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2652/ > This chapter examines reporting of health care errors (e.g., verbal, written, or other form of communication and/or recording of near miss and patient safety events that generally involves some form of reporting system) and these events’ disclosure (e.g., communication of errors to patients and their families), including the ethical aspects of error-reporting mechanisms. The potential benefits of intrainstitutional and Web-based databases might assist nurses and other providers to prevent similar hazards and improve patient safety. Clinicians’ fears of lawsuits and their self-perceptions of incompetence could be dispelled by organizational cultures emphasizing safety rather than blame. This chapter focuses on the assertion that reporting errors that result in patient harm as well as seemingly trivial errors and near misses has the potential to strengthen processes of care and improve the quality of care afforded patients. Looking a relative in the eye and telling them their loved one is dead because you made a honest or even careless mistake -- now THAT is bravery. I don't know if anyone is actually doing that just because it's in the guidelines who wouldn't also do it if it wasn't -- but do similar guidelines at least exist for police? Because if you swap out some words, all of that could be said about police work, too. It doesn't get much more hateful than lying about someone you killed. After that comes defending such incidents, then there is a big gap, and then comes "all cops are pigs" on the hate scale. That doesn't justify the latter, but I don't know what moral high ground you think you're posting from. > And there are a good number of those 1000 that die that deserved to die and thankfully we have brave people to go after those crazys A "good number" would be 1000. What "good number" do you have in mind? If it's even just 999 or less, would you swap with one of the innocent people who got killed? And why do the others "deserve to die"? Because it has to be that way, in your mind, or because you looked at the individual incidents? Wouldn't they deserve even more to get disarmed and do their sentence or whatever?
momomat 9y ago
Wait ... this context is bs. There is an entire human element driving this data. The police interacting with other people. If the driver of every car was a predictable machine then then this is just as preventable as flying. Pilots interact with machines not people. And there are a good number of those 1000 that die that deserved to die and thankfully we have brave people to go after those crazys. This is police hate and criminal pandering with such vague statememts. Is this hacker news or an antifa forum?
sjg007 9y ago
Broken tail light, speeding and other infractions should just be automatic tickets from a dash cam on the squad car or a speed camera. Same with illegal lane change or carpool violations. They can be mailed to the registered owner.
- Lunar_Lamp 9y ago
  Perhaps, but I think that this misses an important aspect of those first few examples: safety. The reason that people are pulled over for speeding, broken tail lights and illegal lane changes are so that they can be convinced to remedy the situation and make things safer. The punishment is not meant to be the only outcome of the incident. You may well be correct (after all, static speed cameras exist, and apparently have an effect), but personally I'd want to see a fairly detailed analysis to convince me that you are correct.
  - sjg007 9y ago
    People speed, drive with broken tail lights and illegal overtake or change lanes all of the time. Only a small fraction of those offenses are captured by law enforcement. In making a stop, we are trading the safety of the public in general against the safety of the driver and officer from the interaction.
mnm1 9y ago
The only justice at this point that can equalize the situation is an eye for an eye. Cops that kill innocent people are guilty of murder and should be executed. The death penalty should apply to all public officials, cops and prosecutors especially, when they murder someone like in this story. They should be held to a higher standard than everyone else in society, not lower. Without an independent investigation and extremely harsh punishments, this situation will never even begin to be fixed. I'm tired of all this apologizing for police murders. We need to fix the incentive system, which now incentivizes police to not care and shoot first. These days, when I read about police being killed, I feel no empathy. At least the score is somewhat evened out. After all, I'm certain police feel no empathy for the innocent people they murder. I can't feel empathy for people in a profession whose stated goal is only their safety at the expense of anything and everyone else, people that society entrusts with great power for the greater good. If they can't be public servants and shoulder such responsibility, they should find other jobs before they murder innocent people. I fear police more than I fear anything else. It's a rational, justified fear in the US. This is definitely not justice. This is definitely not serving. This is definitely not protecting.
- IanDrake 9y ago
  Do you know anyone who is a cop? Let me tell you about my buddy's first week on the job as a police officer in what most would consider a small town with low crime. Keep in mind that prior to this he was a school teacher. On his second day, a single-car car accident. Three young girls in the car, one had her brains hanging out of her head, one was halfway through the window mangled, bloody and dead, and the third was thrown from the vehicle and was "fucked up pretty bad". He said he could see her ribs where the skin had been torn away. Drunk driver, speeding, no seat belts. Guess who gets to deals with that shit? A few nights later, a woman calls the police on her husband. He's a vet with PTSD and she tells the cops he took his guns and wanted to kill a cop. An APB is put out on his car but before the police found it there was a call about a guy walking around in a park with a riffle. So the police surrounded the park and went hunting for the guy. Now my buddy, who a year ago was teaching kids in a prep school is walking through the woods where a trained soldier is looking to kill him. At the same time, 15 police officers are all converging from different vectors and trying not to shoot each other in the confusion. After searching the woods they find his parked car and surround it. They can see him sitting in the front seat and tell him to put his hands up. He never complies. He never complies because he's already blown his brains out. My buddy got to see that too. Can you imagine what dealing with this stuff does to your mind? It gets better. When they get to his wife's house to tell her that her husband is dead she says "Good, how?" Perplexed my buddy said "He shot himself in the head in his car." Her response: "The car? That fucking bastard". Can you imagine? I live in a nice place. I had no idea this kind of crap goes on. This didn't even get a mention in the paper. My point is, you don't know what the police do on a daily basis. And you don't even know how much you don't know. There are no superheroes out there, but most cops are the closest things we have to them. You should totally join. It sounds like you'd make it all look easy.

61 points by dankohn1 9y ago

The next you want to think that a police officer may have been too on edge, consider this https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb7_1502405948 https://www.liveleak.com/view?i=cb7_1502405948

Sir_Substance 9y ago
It's less dangerous to be a police officer than it is to be a garbage man: http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-top-10-dangerous-jobs-country-tanks/ http://thefreethoughtproject.com/cop-top-10-dangerous-jobs-c... If a garbage man shoots someone, he gets a criminal trial, same as everyone else. If it's a defensible shooting, he'll be exonerated. What is the point of society paying for a police program, if not to be better trained and better equipped personnel to handle these kinds of dangers? Equip police with recording equipment to maximize their ability to justify and defend their actions, and then remove all special provisions that allows them to kill someone and not stand a full criminal trial.
jMyles 9y ago
A liveleak video depicting a single graphic anecdote is about as far from useful data as a piece of multimedia can be.
- IanDrake 9y ago
  Data? Is that how you think the average human mind works? It's fine for policy, but that's not how we think of risk.
- somenewacc 9y ago
  This is an example, that you should consider as a possibility.
  - calvano915 9y ago
    It's possible the officer's approach to the situation/suspect contributed to causing the result. Perhaps use a whole different approach (less aggressive and more conversational), or tase the guy sooner, or back off until you have backup before continuing the encounter. The outcome might've been the same regardless, and the cop did not deserve to get shot, but cops need to realize that just issuing commands aggressively may not be the best approach and the job may require more nuance especially given the target demographic.
  - jMyles 9y ago
    That's not the point. An example of someone being hit by a meteorite in her living room doesn't mean that we need to armor living rooms against extra-planetary objects. I think most police officers (those from sane departments) realize that they are unlikely to be victims of situations like the one depicted here. And police officers who are on edge are that way because of poor training, not because of any actual risk from their career choice.
thinkfurther 9y ago
From the article: > The way it works now, civilians often feel like the ones responsible for keeping violence at bay. In May, an African-American journalist named Tonya Jameson was changing the license plates on the used S.U.V. she had recently bought when an off-duty officer accused her of stealing the car — and pointed his gun at her. Ms. Jameson had proof of ownership in a bag that sat on the ground nearby, but she dared not move a muscle. > Ms. Jameson told me that the words “black people can die like this,” kept running through her head. “That was my mantra. I knew I had to be careful not to freak him out. If he killed me, no one would know what really happened.” > She spoke in a soothing voice, explaining to the police officer that if he looked in the bag, he would find the bill of sale. Instead he kept his gun trained on her and called in reinforcements. When someone is "on the edge" like that, in a situation like that, I'll consider therapy in prison for them, but that's about it.
ringaroundthetx 9y ago
yes, so our ONLY solution is collective punishment against the entire population and anyone happening to be visiting the country. thats not intended to be a strawman argument, it is intended to be hyperbole because the current outcome is indefensible.

ColinWright 9y ago

My wife's uncle is a trained engineer, worked in a high-level mergers and acquisitions division of a well-known company, and is an aerobatics pilot. He says that the reason flying is so safe compared with any other form of transport is because of the ubiquitous and relentless use of check-lists, and the deep investigation of every incident. After each incident the check-lists are re-visited to see if the causes could be prevented. The investigations are carried out by independent bodies with their only aim being to find the truth. When I wondered out loud once why such an approach isn't taken for other services and industries, a friend of mine - born forty with cynicism to spare - said "Rich people fly." Perhaps the same approach to incidents in the maritime environment, and incidents involving the police, isn't taken because somehow the people most affected are seen as somehow not really worth the time and effort. It's not the rich people, the people in power, who are affected. I really hope that's not true, because if it is, nothing will change.

geggam 9y ago
Once you go full cynic you start thinking govts are created to protect the wealthy and wars are instigated to generate more wealth. Then they call you a conspiracy nut so society ostracizes you and ignores your observations
- smokeyj 9y ago
  Airlines are accountable to the market. Cops are accountable to their ego. Soon as you figure out someone's motivation their actions become obvious. Edit: if precincts got paid based on customer satisfaction we'd see an overnight change making the police force unrecognizable. Crazy how money do that.
  - oneplane 9y ago
    Regarding the money aspect: for someone living in western Europe, the police budget and income system in the USA seems crazy. How could they possibly do that they are supposed to do (uphold the law) with a system that forces them to select their actions based on the money it will generate for them.

jaclaz 9y ago

I am a bit perplexed by the "new technology": >The students created a smartphone app, called Virtual Traffic Stop, that allows him to do just that. After the officer pulls a driver to the side of the road, he would use the app to start a video chat with the driver as a first point of contact, allowing him to observe whether the driver seemed mentally ill or dangerous, notice clues in the interior of the vehicle and review identification documents. Just to name one, I don't have usually a smartphone, or a switched on smartphone, when driving, and the police officer should have a way to find and call my phone number, which not necessarily is linked to the car license plate. And this data would be interesting: >In some cities, when you roll through a stoplight, a camera catches you in the act, and a few weeks later you receive a ticket in the mail. Data suggests that this automatic system is far cheaper than “human” ticketing and reduces pedestrian deaths. And a camera can’t kill people. Undoubtedly it is cheaper, the point is how much it contributes to safety. I confess that I received one of those tickets (the fact that a large number of people received one since seemingly the municipality put the camera and shortened to the bare legal minimum - possibly even less than that - the yellow light time is another thing). Frankly after 2 1/2 months I didn't even remember to have gone through that particular traffic light/intersection, I paid the fine and that was it. By contrast a couple of times that police stopped me, even if they at the end resolved to not fine me, they "stopped my driving" right there, so if I was doing something - if not illegal - "border line" with dangerous they actually prevented me from continuing doing it, by forcefully inserting a "pause".

Anechoic 9y ago
>Just to name one, I don't have usually a smartphone, or a switched on smartphone, when driving, and the police officer should have a way to find and call my phone number, which not necessarily is linked to the car license plate. Sure it's a flawed idea, but may result in better ideas. For example, what about integrating that technology into the car itself? Yeah there are problems to be overcome (doesn't help with cars already out on the road, needs to account for spoofing and 4th Amendment considerations), but it is an interesting direction.
- jaclaz 9y ago

jbmorgado 9y ago

It's incredible how people in the USA keep coming up with excuses about the matter. In the EU police is totally ok in shooting at a non lethal location in the suspect in order to neutralize him, in the USA they shoot to kill. There is just no practical reason for this and statistics prove the EU approach saves suspects lives with no increase to police safety. While you keep denying the obvious you are not going to be able to fix it.

peterwwillis 9y ago

Because planes don't walk around carrying guns and a head full of bias and fear? Because police officers are not multi-million-dollar engineering marvels? What editor fell asleep and allowed this to be posted?

elmar 9y ago

Americans are eight times more likely to be killed by a cop than a terrorist. http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-killed-nearly-9000-civilians-since-911/218381/ http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-killed-nearly-9000-ci... http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrorism-disease-accidents-2017-1 http://www.businessinsider.com/death-risk-statistics-terrori...

acranox 9y ago
If you exclude 9/11, it's got to be a lot higher. Killings by police are constant, whereas terror attacks are spiky. Like, in the past 10 years, what percentage of days included at least one killing by the police, vs. killing by terrorists. The "eight times" statement is just referring to causalities over a time period, which I think end up over-representing the true danger from terrorists. The businessinsider link does a pretty good job to addressing that point.

microcolonel 9y ago

Because airplanes are very, very safe. That said, police could definitely do a better job. Body cameras may have to be always-on (but queried only for relevant portions, or if the officer is dead) at some point. Currently they seem to be off at crucial times in an encounter.

Animats 9y ago

Few police departments are into internal self-improvement. When they get better, it's usually due to heavy pressure from the outside. Sometimes getting a new police chief from the outside helps. But there's no institutional oversight system to make them better. Some top cops, such as Bratton, have written autobiographies. Improving a police department is mostly hard work, management controls that measure results, better training, firing a few underperformers, and common sense. Traffic stops are a big problem.[1] About 5000 US cops a year are injured during traffic stops, usually by other traffic. About 7 cops per year are shot during traffic stops. The big risk to cops is being run over, not being shot. Some training materials don't get this.[2] [1] http://www.forcescience.org/trafficstop.html http://www.forcescience.org/trafficstop.html [2] http://resources.learningforlife.org/exploring/lawenforcement/study/tstop.pdf http://resources.learningforlife.org/exploring/lawenforcemen...

momomat 9y ago

Wait ... this context is bs. There is an entire human element driving this data. The police interacting with other people. If the driver of every car was a predictable machine then then this is just as preventable as flying. Pilots interact with machines not people. And there are a good number of those 1000 that die that deserved to die and thankfully we have brave people to go after those crazys. This is police hate and criminal pandering with such vague statememts. Is this hacker news or an antifa forum?

thinkfurther 9y ago
> Mr. Bell hired his own investigators. They contend that it all began with faulty equipment: Officer Erich Strausbaugh’s holster caught on a cable dangling from one of the cars’ side-view mirrors, so that when he tackled Michael, he felt a powerful tug on his belt. Assuming that the young man had grabbed for his weapon, he called out to his partners, “He’s got my gun.” And then they lied about it. What is brave about that, in this case? Yes, there are uncountable cops doing untold amounts of great "work" (I put it in quotes not to belittle it, but because I think it's more noble than that). I even think the "blue shield" does serve a valid purpose a lot of times, but it's when it's abused that is the problem. And that is a problem. Here's an idea how actual guts might look like: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2652/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK2652/ > This chapter examines reporting of health care errors (e.g., verbal, written, or other form of communication and/or recording of near miss and patient safety events that generally involves some form of reporting system) and these events’ disclosure (e.g., communication of errors to patients and their families), including the ethical aspects of error-reporting mechanisms. The potential benefits of intrainstitutional and Web-based databases might assist nurses and other providers to prevent similar hazards and improve patient safety. Clinicians’ fears of lawsuits and their self-perceptions of incompetence could be dispelled by organizational cultures emphasizing safety rather than blame. This chapter focuses on the assertion that reporting errors that result in patient harm as well as seemingly trivial errors and near misses has the potential to strengthen processes of care and improve the quality of care afforded patients. Looking a relative in the eye and telling them their loved one is dead because you made a honest or even careless mistake -- now THAT is bravery. I don't know if anyone is actually doing that just because it's in the guidelines who wouldn't also do it if it wasn't -- but do similar guidelines at least exist for police? Because if you swap out some words, all of that could be said about police work, too. It doesn't get much more hateful than lying about someone you killed. After that comes defending such incidents, then there is a big gap, and then comes "all cops are pigs" on the hate scale. That doesn't justify the latter, but I don't know what moral high ground you think you're posting from. > And there are a good number of those 1000 that die that deserved to die and thankfully we have brave people to go after those crazys A "good number" would be 1000. What "good number" do you have in mind? If it's even just 999 or less, would you swap with one of the innocent people who got killed? And why do the others "deserve to die"? Because it has to be that way, in your mind, or because you looked at the individual incidents? Wouldn't they deserve even more to get disarmed and do their sentence or whatever?

momomat 9y ago

sjg007 9y ago

Broken tail light, speeding and other infractions should just be automatic tickets from a dash cam on the squad car or a speed camera. Same with illegal lane change or carpool violations. They can be mailed to the registered owner.

Lunar_Lamp 9y ago
Perhaps, but I think that this misses an important aspect of those first few examples: safety. The reason that people are pulled over for speeding, broken tail lights and illegal lane changes are so that they can be convinced to remedy the situation and make things safer. The punishment is not meant to be the only outcome of the incident. You may well be correct (after all, static speed cameras exist, and apparently have an effect), but personally I'd want to see a fairly detailed analysis to convince me that you are correct.
- sjg007 9y ago
  People speed, drive with broken tail lights and illegal overtake or change lanes all of the time. Only a small fraction of those offenses are captured by law enforcement. In making a stop, we are trading the safety of the public in general against the safety of the driver and officer from the interaction.

mnm1 9y ago

The only justice at this point that can equalize the situation is an eye for an eye. Cops that kill innocent people are guilty of murder and should be executed. The death penalty should apply to all public officials, cops and prosecutors especially, when they murder someone like in this story. They should be held to a higher standard than everyone else in society, not lower. Without an independent investigation and extremely harsh punishments, this situation will never even begin to be fixed. I'm tired of all this apologizing for police murders. We need to fix the incentive system, which now incentivizes police to not care and shoot first. These days, when I read about police being killed, I feel no empathy. At least the score is somewhat evened out. After all, I'm certain police feel no empathy for the innocent people they murder. I can't feel empathy for people in a profession whose stated goal is only their safety at the expense of anything and everyone else, people that society entrusts with great power for the greater good. If they can't be public servants and shoulder such responsibility, they should find other jobs before they murder innocent people. I fear police more than I fear anything else. It's a rational, justified fear in the US. This is definitely not justice. This is definitely not serving. This is definitely not protecting.

IanDrake 9y ago
Do you know anyone who is a cop? Let me tell you about my buddy's first week on the job as a police officer in what most would consider a small town with low crime. Keep in mind that prior to this he was a school teacher. On his second day, a single-car car accident. Three young girls in the car, one had her brains hanging out of her head, one was halfway through the window mangled, bloody and dead, and the third was thrown from the vehicle and was "fucked up pretty bad". He said he could see her ribs where the skin had been torn away. Drunk driver, speeding, no seat belts. Guess who gets to deals with that shit? A few nights later, a woman calls the police on her husband. He's a vet with PTSD and she tells the cops he took his guns and wanted to kill a cop. An APB is put out on his car but before the police found it there was a call about a guy walking around in a park with a riffle. So the police surrounded the park and went hunting for the guy. Now my buddy, who a year ago was teaching kids in a prep school is walking through the woods where a trained soldier is looking to kill him. At the same time, 15 police officers are all converging from different vectors and trying not to shoot each other in the confusion. After searching the woods they find his parked car and surround it. They can see him sitting in the front seat and tell him to put his hands up. He never complies. He never complies because he's already blown his brains out. My buddy got to see that too. Can you imagine what dealing with this stuff does to your mind? It gets better. When they get to his wife's house to tell her that her husband is dead she says "Good, how?" Perplexed my buddy said "He shot himself in the head in his car." Her response: "The car? That fucking bastard". Can you imagine? I live in a nice place. I had no idea this kind of crap goes on. This didn't even get a mention in the paper. My point is, you don't know what the police do on a daily basis. And you don't even know how much you don't know. There are no superheroes out there, but most cops are the closest things we have to them. You should totally join. It sounds like you'd make it all look easy.