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Agree to disagree. This isn't really an issue of a lack of absolute free speech but instead has much more to do with AI gone bad. With any reasonable definition

Agree to disagree. This isn't really an issue of a lack of absolute free speech but instead has much more to do with AI gone bad. With any reasonable definition of free speech (i.e. limited) it would've been wrong to remove footage documenting war crimes - hell even with a highly restricted free speech. Freedom of speech is not inherenlty the highest value there possibly is. You should be able to defend something like "Yeah, even Hitler had a right to say what he thought and it'a a good thing he had it, despite the consequences that ensued." because, in my opinion, I rather restrict the freedom of one genocidal maniac than see the dath of 85 mio. people. Using your definition of freedom of speech we could easily justify not outlawing murder: "We should just educate people not to murder each other instead of banning it." Maybe banning can actually have a chilling effect on ie. hate-speech, heroin abuse? (While I'm for banning heroin, I advocate for providing services that ensure safe consumption (e.g. needle dispensaries, consumption rooms) and help prevent (further) abuse instead of jailing them)

nnq 9y ago
> any reasonable definition of free speech (i.e. limited) First, "limited free speech" is not "free speech" anymore. Second, you're just not going to be able to "define" things anymore as you automate and replace with AIs more and more processes (the definition will more am more start to be "the practical implementation of the machine learning filtering algorithm and the choice of training data", anything else will be "approximations" since you won't be able to prove things about these statistical algorithms much). The choice will be either (a) full freedom + massive investment in mechanisms to manage the negative consequences of this freedom (let's start with education first, not only making it free for all at all levels, but also forcing people be given free paid time to educate themselves, not worked to dumbness 8+hrs/day and then expecting them to differentiate real-news from fake-news...) or (b) give up freedom and live in a "well managed totalitarian system" with "freedom for distractions and sex only" or some other deal like that. > we could easily justify not outlawing murder No, there'l a clear criteria: reversibility! If I say something incredibly hate enticing, I can be proven wrong, and I can even retract my words and say "I changed my mind" later, that should be ok. If I murder someone, that can't be undone, even if I say I changed my mind about murdering him, he's still dead and I've still proven that I'm capable of murder (imho all people are, but that's a different discussion...).
robertlagrant 9y ago
'Using your definition of freedom of speech we could easily justify not outlawing murder: "We should just educate people not to murder each other instead of banning it."' Freedom of speech is a very high value because sometimes extremist views (such as "we should rebel against the British") are a good idea, yet if there are anti-extremism laws, this sort of idea would never be surfaced, because extremism can be defined however the enforcer chooses to define it. Why you think this also applies to murder?

nnq 9y ago

> any reasonable definition of free speech (i.e. limited) First, "limited free speech" is not "free speech" anymore. Second, you're just not going to be able to "define" things anymore as you automate and replace with AIs more and more processes (the definition will more am more start to be "the practical implementation of the machine learning filtering algorithm and the choice of training data", anything else will be "approximations" since you won't be able to prove things about these statistical algorithms much). The choice will be either (a) full freedom + massive investment in mechanisms to manage the negative consequences of this freedom (let's start with education first, not only making it free for all at all levels, but also forcing people be given free paid time to educate themselves, not worked to dumbness 8+hrs/day and then expecting them to differentiate real-news from fake-news...) or (b) give up freedom and live in a "well managed totalitarian system" with "freedom for distractions and sex only" or some other deal like that. > we could easily justify not outlawing murder No, there'l a clear criteria: reversibility! If I say something incredibly hate enticing, I can be proven wrong, and I can even retract my words and say "I changed my mind" later, that should be ok. If I murder someone, that can't be undone, even if I say I changed my mind about murdering him, he's still dead and I've still proven that I'm capable of murder (imho all people are, but that's a different discussion...).

robertlagrant 9y ago

'Using your definition of freedom of speech we could easily justify not outlawing murder: "We should just educate people not to murder each other instead of banning it."' Freedom of speech is a very high value because sometimes extremist views (such as "we should rebel against the British") are a good idea, yet if there are anti-extremism laws, this sort of idea would never be surfaced, because extremism can be defined however the enforcer chooses to define it. Why you think this also applies to murder?