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I have to go to work to have an income, I have to go to a supermarket to get food. You can’t even order stuff online without getting a mailman at the door. I w

by Aaargh20318 9y ago

I have to go to work to have an income, I have to go to a supermarket to get food. You can’t even order stuff online without getting a mailman at the door. I would be fine if I could limiti it to a couple of hours of human contact a month, but society forces me to have social interactions all day every day. It’s making me seriously depressed and super anxious.

throwanem 9y ago
That's a different thing from what it sounded like when I wrote my earlier comment.
sotojuan 9y ago
I can see not wanting to go outside but not even seeing a mailman (was going to suggest grocery delivering)? Not sure there's anything you can do - even remote working requires some interaction with people.
p1mrx 9y ago
I don't think social interaction is making you anxious; instead your anxiety causes you to construct a model of reality where social interactions are bad. You need to imagine your life from a third-person perspective, and realize that the way you feel resides entirely within your own brain, and is mutable. When you look at the world, you're seeing a stream of photons. Photons transport light, not emotion.
- Aaargh20318 9y ago
  > I don't think social interaction is making you anxious; instead your anxiety causes you to construct a model of reality where social interactions are bad. Imagine having a live grenade in your pocket. The grenade is just powerful enough to seriously hurt you but not kill you. It's also unstable and will randomly go off once or twice a year (and will be replaced with a new one when it does). Now imagine if you were required to carry this grenade around every time you have to interact with humans. This is similar to what social interaction feels like to me. I am autistic and have trouble with nonverbal communication and reading between the lines. Any and all social interactions can lead to this 'grenade' exploding in my face. It can be something relatively harmless as being embarrassed or people getting angry with me to the point where I almost got into legal trouble for following instructions that were 'obviously' not supposed to be followed literally. Next to that, it's also super exhausting because none of it comes natural to me. If you want to walk to the other side of the room, you just will it and your legs move. Imagine if you couldn't do that and had to consciously tense and release each muscle in your legs to walk. Social interaction is like that to me. Everything is a conscious action, from trying to fake eye contact (and for how long), to posture, to choosing my words, to watching the other person's face/body and trying to figure out what that is saying. And last but not least, none of it is rewarding to me. When a 'normal' person has social interactions, this is supposedly pleasurable for them, which motivates them to seek it out and take risks while doing so. None of that works for me. I don't think it's strange that something that is exhausting, randomly hurtful and not in any way rewarding causes me anxiety. Having to do that 8 hours a day, just to be able to afford food and a roof over my head makes it even worse.
  - p1mrx 9y ago
    Clearly you have a solid understanding of the English language. Have you ever tried expressing your thoughts (provided that you can avoid being offensive) to someone in person? Like if the mailman is trying to make conversation, say "Sorry, I'm terrible at social stuff." If you follow directions too literally, say "Sorry, I'm a bit autistic." If you're really embarrassed, say "That was so embarrassing." Talking about your inner experience gives you something to talk about, and leaves the other person with a better understanding of the situation. I'm not actually sure if these are good ideas (I'm probably a bit autistic myself), but given that avoiding contact leaves you with no reputation whatsoever, having a reputation as a weird person isn't really any worse.
    - Aaargh20318 9y ago
      When I was younger I would go to the supermarket, get what I needed and pay without saying a word. I knew some kind of interaction was expected, but I couldn't make it up on the spot. By now, I have developed what can best be described as a large set of scripts in my head. I can go to the supermarket, the cheese shop, the butcher, etc. I can place my order, make smalltalk and appear as any normal person. The problems start when things go off-script, it's like mentally tripping over a loose tile. Worse even are situations that are new/unfamiliar. Explaining it has never really helped, people simply fail to understand. 99% of the time, I'm indistinguishable from a normal person. The problem with that is that people don't really see me as any different, and thus place the same expectations on me as they would on any other person. Even knowing that I'm autistic doesn't change this one bit. I've lost friends over misunderstandings where I failed to pick up 'obvious' subtext and they just refused to believe that I didn't see it. The worst part is where people get angry out of the blue and I have no idea why or what I did wrong.
      - p1mrx 9y ago
        Hm, well I've been going to the same supermarket for 10 years, without saying much more than "pretty good... thanks." Recently I started adding "how are you?" which made things a bit more interesting. But I'm pretty good at improvising jokes and scientific observations, so that helps keep some words flowing. If you want to have a longer conversation, then finding places to insert questions can be useful.
- throwanem 9y ago
  Yeah, I was going to do something like this, then I thought "you know, I don't know dude's life at all, no reason to assume anything in my experience would be at all useful, let me just step back a minute before I insist on myself and try to help out without knowing how to be effective about it." Turns out that was a good idea.

throwanem 9y ago

That's a different thing from what it sounded like when I wrote my earlier comment.

sotojuan 9y ago

I can see not wanting to go outside but not even seeing a mailman (was going to suggest grocery delivering)? Not sure there's anything you can do - even remote working requires some interaction with people.

p1mrx 9y ago

I don't think social interaction is making you anxious; instead your anxiety causes you to construct a model of reality where social interactions are bad. You need to imagine your life from a third-person perspective, and realize that the way you feel resides entirely within your own brain, and is mutable. When you look at the world, you're seeing a stream of photons. Photons transport light, not emotion.

Aaargh20318 9y ago
> I don't think social interaction is making you anxious; instead your anxiety causes you to construct a model of reality where social interactions are bad. Imagine having a live grenade in your pocket. The grenade is just powerful enough to seriously hurt you but not kill you. It's also unstable and will randomly go off once or twice a year (and will be replaced with a new one when it does). Now imagine if you were required to carry this grenade around every time you have to interact with humans. This is similar to what social interaction feels like to me. I am autistic and have trouble with nonverbal communication and reading between the lines. Any and all social interactions can lead to this 'grenade' exploding in my face. It can be something relatively harmless as being embarrassed or people getting angry with me to the point where I almost got into legal trouble for following instructions that were 'obviously' not supposed to be followed literally. Next to that, it's also super exhausting because none of it comes natural to me. If you want to walk to the other side of the room, you just will it and your legs move. Imagine if you couldn't do that and had to consciously tense and release each muscle in your legs to walk. Social interaction is like that to me. Everything is a conscious action, from trying to fake eye contact (and for how long), to posture, to choosing my words, to watching the other person's face/body and trying to figure out what that is saying. And last but not least, none of it is rewarding to me. When a 'normal' person has social interactions, this is supposedly pleasurable for them, which motivates them to seek it out and take risks while doing so. None of that works for me. I don't think it's strange that something that is exhausting, randomly hurtful and not in any way rewarding causes me anxiety. Having to do that 8 hours a day, just to be able to afford food and a roof over my head makes it even worse.
- p1mrx 9y ago
  Clearly you have a solid understanding of the English language. Have you ever tried expressing your thoughts (provided that you can avoid being offensive) to someone in person? Like if the mailman is trying to make conversation, say "Sorry, I'm terrible at social stuff." If you follow directions too literally, say "Sorry, I'm a bit autistic." If you're really embarrassed, say "That was so embarrassing." Talking about your inner experience gives you something to talk about, and leaves the other person with a better understanding of the situation. I'm not actually sure if these are good ideas (I'm probably a bit autistic myself), but given that avoiding contact leaves you with no reputation whatsoever, having a reputation as a weird person isn't really any worse.
  - Aaargh20318 9y ago
    When I was younger I would go to the supermarket, get what I needed and pay without saying a word. I knew some kind of interaction was expected, but I couldn't make it up on the spot. By now, I have developed what can best be described as a large set of scripts in my head. I can go to the supermarket, the cheese shop, the butcher, etc. I can place my order, make smalltalk and appear as any normal person. The problems start when things go off-script, it's like mentally tripping over a loose tile. Worse even are situations that are new/unfamiliar. Explaining it has never really helped, people simply fail to understand. 99% of the time, I'm indistinguishable from a normal person. The problem with that is that people don't really see me as any different, and thus place the same expectations on me as they would on any other person. Even knowing that I'm autistic doesn't change this one bit. I've lost friends over misunderstandings where I failed to pick up 'obvious' subtext and they just refused to believe that I didn't see it. The worst part is where people get angry out of the blue and I have no idea why or what I did wrong.
    - p1mrx 9y ago
      Hm, well I've been going to the same supermarket for 10 years, without saying much more than "pretty good... thanks." Recently I started adding "how are you?" which made things a bit more interesting. But I'm pretty good at improvising jokes and scientific observations, so that helps keep some words flowing. If you want to have a longer conversation, then finding places to insert questions can be useful.
throwanem 9y ago
Yeah, I was going to do something like this, then I thought "you know, I don't know dude's life at all, no reason to assume anything in my experience would be at all useful, let me just step back a minute before I insist on myself and try to help out without knowing how to be effective about it." Turns out that was a good idea.