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We need to begin to discuss the issues that affect men in greater proportion, like solitude and suicide. I applaud the existence of this article. Thanks for pos
by aurelianito 9y ago
We need to begin to discuss the issues that affect men in greater proportion, like solitude and suicide. I applaud the existence of this article. Thanks for posting it.
- ams6110 9y agoThe throngs of support for your position here speak volumes.
- quickthrower2 9y agoIt's a touchy topic and I imagine people feel less comfortable discussing it than for example the latest Uber scandal.
- PhasmaFelis 9y agoAs a feminist, I think it's important to recognize that patriarchy hurts both men and women with its pigeonholed stereotypes. There are unfortunately people who try to hijack this to push their agenda that men's problems are more important than women's problems, which complicates things. But yes, in allowing women to be strong and independent, I think we also must allow men to be weak and to ask for help if they need it.
- aoeuasdf1 9y agoAgreed, which is why I think patriarchy is a bad term for communicating with conservatives or people who aren't used to feminist discourse. I prefer "gender roles". reddit.com/r/Menslib is a good subreddit on these issues
- fastball 9y agoReally, "patriarchy" as a term probably shouldn't be used at all if you want to have a serious discussion about Western culture.
- PhasmaFelis 9y agoI'm baffled what people are finding offensive enough to downvote here. Did you see the words "feminist" and "patriarchy" and stop reading?
- abstractbeliefs 9y agoI haven't voted in this article either way, but my take on why people might be downvoting you are twofold: 1) You've come into a thread that is specifically looking at men's problems, and made it about feminism and your own highly female-oriented viewpoints: "As a feminist", the (justifiable) fear that people make this out as "men's problems are more important than women's problems", "allowing women to be strong and independent, I think we also must allow men to be weak and to ask for help if they need it.". If people came into a thread about sexism in the work place and explained an opinion with similar words with flipped gender, they would be criticised. 2) For the worse, the terms you pick out yourself have been coopted by an unfortunate group who use them to push their own agenda, who go around with mugs marked "Male Tears", gleeful in the support of a minority of people abusing the term and the quiet tolerance of many more. They don't represent feminism or progressive values. But they do use the words most loudly, and that develops unfortunate connotations. Overall, your points may be valid, but your expression of them alienates the people this article is about and addresses.
- PhasmaFelis 9y agoThanks for the response. What I was trying to convey is that I agree with Aurelianito. There does need to be attention paid to men's issues. I framed it the way I did because I think this is often portrayed as an anti-feminist argument, by people on both sides, and I disagree with them; I think it's important for feminists to care about men's issues, and it's important for feminists to say that precisely because of the people you mention in #2, to counterbalance them and demonstrate that they don't speak for all of us. But some people don't want to see a reasonable counterbalance. They see a word they don't like and downvote without reading; they actually get angry when others fail to live down to their stereotypes. Going in the other direction, I've seen liberal feminists get confused and angry when they meet a conservative who supports GLBT rights. It makes people uncomfortable when folks don't stay in their pigeonholes. It's frustrating.
- home_boi 9y agoPatriarchy is a model whose name alone understandably offends and antagonizes an entire gender. It is clear that the people backing the model will not be effective in helping men because they are either ignorant about or do not care about the feelings of men. > There are unfortunately people who try to hijack this to push their agenda Hypocritically, you're using the topic to push your own agenda here. Which further shows how adopting the patriachy model will not help.
- PhasmaFelis 9y agoDid you miss that I agreed with aurelianito? That I said, yes, absolutely, there needs to be attention paid to men's issues?
- Lagged2Death 9y agoPatriarchy is a model whose name alone... Hearing the name doesn't make you an expert. The world isn't so systematic; history and context matter. There's quite a lot of study and learning to absorb if you're inclined, but this is a stunning demonstration of arrogance from ignorance, and I can't understand why anyone would want to demonstrate that. "Boi."
- throwanem 9y agoYou're right! History and context do matter. In this case, there's a lot of history and context around the form of argument from patriarchy in spaces where men are discussing the issues that affect us. Very little of that history or context suggests that entertaining such arguments, in such spaces, is at all helpful in finding effective ways to improve men's lives or ameliorate men's suffering. What you're doing is, though, very effective as a derailing tactic, although I have to say you're really going above and beyond with the contempt you add to it. What are you trying to accomplish, this way? What do you imagine that you're helping? What you've said here, and the way in which you've said it, does nothing to convince anyone that the conceptual schema you advocate has any genuine value - indeed, quite the opposite. Yet this nonetheless is what you chose to say, and how you chose to say it. Why?
- stonejolt 9y agoIf you want to discuss and/or fight those issues, try to find your local mens rights group. they are well connected and can offer advice on those topics.