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Loosely related topic: the tales of the ancient Polynesians finding and settling on many island groups in the Pacific, based on navigation skills they developed

by vram22 9y ago

Loosely related topic: the tales of the ancient Polynesians finding and settling on many island groups in the Pacific, based on navigation skills they developed over time, involving the sun, the stars, the wind, the waves, ocean currents, bird flying patterns, etc. National Geographic magazine had an article or a series on it several years ago, and IIRC, they sent a team out to the Pacific area to research this stuff some, and to interview such living Polynesian navigators. I had read the article/series. The Morris West book "The Navigator" is also interesting in this connection (though there is only a bit of discussion of the navigation topic in the book, it is not the main focus), and the book is a good read apart from that, both entertaining and for topics like human dynamics when on a voyage as well as when stranded on an island for a long period. Update: Added link to his Wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_West https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morris_West

vram22 9y ago
Checked and found a few more links about ancient Polynesian navigation methods: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~adamson/vol43a1.html http://www2.hawaii.edu/~adamson/vol43a1.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation
- contingencies 9y ago
  A lot of material available is too heavily weighted towards Hawaii for obvious reasons (US / research funding), but in fact the range of vessels and navigation techniques in the region is large and the best / most detailed information on a surviving navigation tradition emerged from Micronesia (as documented in The Navigator mentioned by the parent). Recently me and one other guy created the featured page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa_(watercraft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa_(watercraft) which is the traditional watercraft of that area. Much of the information came from http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/ http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/. I tried to visit the Spanish National Library in Madrid to search for other early sources but the uncultured swine wouldn't let me in without a tertiary institution affiliation!
  - vram22 9y ago
    Cool about the Wa. I got a ride on a catamaran once, in South India, when our final year class (high school) was there at a beach on a picnic. Asked the fishermen to let me hop on, and they did. I was sitting in the front, astride the log, with my legs in the water almost up to waist level. We went out to sea for a kilometer or two at least, then came back after a while. Good fun. It was something like this, but narrower in the front: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Tamil_catamaran.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Tamil_ca...
    - contingencies 9y ago
      Interesting. The multihull technique is essentially ascribed to the Austronesians but was first recorded in historic times by westerners visiting Tamil areas, possibly Sri Lanka. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur_ship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur_ship too. There is some theory that certain early Roman ships were actually catamarans. This early patent from the 1870s describes a multihull: https://www.google.com/patents/US189459 https://www.google.com/patents/US189459
      - vram22 9y ago
        Cool. I saw this in the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur_ship#Borobudur_ship_expedition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur_ship#Borobudur_ship_... where it says that a British sailor created a reconstruction of that type of ship and sailed in it from Indonesia via Madagascar, and then around the Cape of Good Hope to Ghana. Reminded me of Thor Heyerdahl's Kon-Tiki voyage :), which I had read about in a National Geographic article about the voyage some years ago.
JoeDaDude 9y ago
There was a great film about the discovery/arrival of humans in America and the Polynesian culture was mentioned as a likely candidate to have arrived in South America. As they said in the film (paraphrasing) "They discovered dozens of Islands. How could they not find the largest island, America? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0F8mUmQvwI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0F8mUmQvwI
- contingencies 9y ago
  For a fun Wikipedia page which I try to keep up to date with occasional emerging results of scientific studies, check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_co...
  - vram22 9y ago
    Checking it out, looks interesting ...
- vram22 9y ago
  Interesting, will check out that video. And good question. I've always wondered why smaller islands (and some big ones like Greenland or Iceland) are called islands, but even large ones such as the continents are not. After all, they are all surrounded by water.

by vram22 9y ago

vram22 9y ago

Checked and found a few more links about ancient Polynesian navigation methods: http://www2.hawaii.edu/~adamson/vol43a1.html http://www2.hawaii.edu/~adamson/vol43a1.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polynesian_navigation

contingencies 9y ago
A lot of material available is too heavily weighted towards Hawaii for obvious reasons (US / research funding), but in fact the range of vessels and navigation techniques in the region is large and the best / most detailed information on a surviving navigation tradition emerged from Micronesia (as documented in The Navigator mentioned by the parent). Recently me and one other guy created the featured page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa_(watercraft) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa_(watercraft) which is the traditional watercraft of that area. Much of the information came from http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/ http://www.jps.auckland.ac.nz/. I tried to visit the Spanish National Library in Madrid to search for other early sources but the uncultured swine wouldn't let me in without a tertiary institution affiliation!
- vram22 9y ago
  Cool about the Wa. I got a ride on a catamaran once, in South India, when our final year class (high school) was there at a beach on a picnic. Asked the fishermen to let me hop on, and they did. I was sitting in the front, astride the log, with my legs in the water almost up to waist level. We went out to sea for a kilometer or two at least, then came back after a while. Good fun. It was something like this, but narrower in the front: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Tamil_catamaran.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Tamil_ca...
  - contingencies 9y ago
    Interesting. The multihull technique is essentially ascribed to the Austronesians but was first recorded in historic times by westerners visiting Tamil areas, possibly Sri Lanka. Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur_ship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur_ship too. There is some theory that certain early Roman ships were actually catamarans. This early patent from the 1870s describes a multihull: https://www.google.com/patents/US189459 https://www.google.com/patents/US189459
    - vram22 9y ago
      Cool. I saw this in the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur_ship#Borobudur_ship_expedition https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borobudur_ship#Borobudur_ship_... where it says that a British sailor created a reconstruction of that type of ship and sailed in it from Indonesia via Madagascar, and then around the Cape of Good Hope to Ghana. Reminded me of Thor Heyerdahl's Kon-Tiki voyage :), which I had read about in a National Geographic article about the voyage some years ago.

JoeDaDude 9y ago

There was a great film about the discovery/arrival of humans in America and the Polynesian culture was mentioned as a likely candidate to have arrived in South America. As they said in the film (paraphrasing) "They discovered dozens of Islands. How could they not find the largest island, America? [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0F8mUmQvwI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0F8mUmQvwI

contingencies 9y ago
For a fun Wikipedia page which I try to keep up to date with occasional emerging results of scientific studies, check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_contact_theories https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pre-Columbian_trans-oceanic_co...
- vram22 9y ago
  Checking it out, looks interesting ...
vram22 9y ago
Interesting, will check out that video. And good question. I've always wondered why smaller islands (and some big ones like Greenland or Iceland) are called islands, but even large ones such as the continents are not. After all, they are all surrounded by water.