9 ms·

Yep. This whole thread is full of cringe. TFA was about how silicon valley & Washington are The Elites -- out of touch with the working class and what are every

Yep. This whole thread is full of cringe. TFA was about how silicon valley & Washington are The Elites -- out of touch with the working class and what are everyday problems for a huge swath of America. And the top 3 comments from the elite are: - Poor people are stupid - Poor people are bad at personal finance - More/better education (government) will help Did everyone suddenly forget all the un/underemployed college graduates we've got? Are they stupid, too? Just a shocking lack of empathy here.

closeparen 9y ago
>Did everyone suddenly forget all the un/underemployed college graduates we've got? Are they stupid, too? I think you'll find the HN consensus is that they're stupid (or were tragically misled) for going to college in a major other than computer science or engineering.
- opencl 9y ago
  There are plenty of CS/engineering majors who end up un/underemployed too.
  - manmal 9y ago
    Here in Austria, you have to behave really bad to not make a decent living if you can code, or at least pretend to be able to code. Developer conferences are _flooded_ with recruiters and CTOs trying to recruit.
    - wutbrodo 9y ago
      That's true here too, but it's not true of every part of the US. If you're stuck somewhere with a weak labor market and unable to move, that's pretty much the only way you'd end up unemployed with a CS degree at this point in time. I don't imagine it will continue like this forever, obviously, but the labor market is tight enough that I know multiple people who changed tired for a living, were waitresses, etc and went through a bootcamp and now make a solid living as an engineer. For those who actually have Computer Science degrees, the demand is infinitely higher.
  - tonyedgecombe 9y ago
    The UK seems to have a particular problem with this: https://www.studyinternational.com/news/uk-computer-science-has-the-highest-rate-of-unemployed-graduates/ https://www.studyinternational.com/news/uk-computer-science-...
- ptero 9y ago
  Ok, I will bite. I do not think blanked statements "CS or fools" make any sense, but I think a number of folks who dedicated 4-8 years of their lives to getting a liberal arts degree did this without a clear idea of what they can realistically expect at the end and making backup plans. A PhD in English or French culture may make sense, but one must realize that professional opportunities outside academia are sparse and number of positions in academia is small.
  - jmenn 9y ago
    They're probably a lot worse inside academia for those fields. That said, everyone I know with an MA in English is doing really well for themselves, both inside and outside the academy. Maybe it's my small sample size though.
  - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 9y ago
    This argument is strong only if you consider a BS or BA program a vocational school.
    - closeparen 9y ago
      It seems to be a fairly common viewpoint that your major should be vocational, and you should get a liberal education along the way in core and elective classes.
- gaius 9y ago
  major other than computer science or engineering The unemployment rate for CS grads in the UK is 10%, one of the highest. It's been up as high as 13% in recent years. The skills shortage is a complete myth designed to lower wages by inflating supply.
  - krisroadruck 9y ago
    Just tossing this out there, but do you think it might be marginally possible that not all CS grads are created equal and that on a bell curve, 10% is really not an insane amount to be the left-hand-side tail?
    - gaius 9y ago
      Wouldn't that be the same for all majors? Why are CS grads less employed that graduates in agriculture or civil engineering or even philosophy? Because there's a glut of them.
koonsolo 9y ago
You are twisting my words. I never said poor people are stupid or the other way around. I said the US credit card system puts people without insight into finances in a serious disadvantage. No sorry, it rips them off. And nobody is talking about it, because it seems everybody thinks it's normal. Explain your credit score to a European for example, and you will be met with a blank stare or disbelief.
- tylerjwilk00 9y ago
  You're still not quite getting it. If people have to choose between going into debt from a finance charge or starving on the street with no roof over their head they will choose the former. It's not about financial education it's about hard choices of the underprivileged.
  - koonsolo 9y ago
    I'm not talking about starving on the street, I'm talking about everybody in US using credit cards for payments and repay. I'm talking about shops offering their own credit cards. You know when US people use their credit card? Every day. You know when Europeans use their credit card? When abroad. And our credit gets instantly paid by our normal bank account. For us, a credit card is the same as a debit card but with a delay on it.
    - icebraining 9y ago
      We just have other types of debt. I know so many people paying 120-150% of the price of their TVs, vaccuum cleaners, kitchen appliances (like the €1224 Thermomix, which they've somehow convinced everyone must have), etc thanks to loans offered by subsidiaries of large banks and pushed by the shops.
      - huac 9y ago
        This is basically Affirm's business too.
    - 9y ago

closeparen 9y ago

>Did everyone suddenly forget all the un/underemployed college graduates we've got? Are they stupid, too? I think you'll find the HN consensus is that they're stupid (or were tragically misled) for going to college in a major other than computer science or engineering.

opencl 9y ago
There are plenty of CS/engineering majors who end up un/underemployed too.
- manmal 9y ago
  Here in Austria, you have to behave really bad to not make a decent living if you can code, or at least pretend to be able to code. Developer conferences are _flooded_ with recruiters and CTOs trying to recruit.
  - wutbrodo 9y ago
    That's true here too, but it's not true of every part of the US. If you're stuck somewhere with a weak labor market and unable to move, that's pretty much the only way you'd end up unemployed with a CS degree at this point in time. I don't imagine it will continue like this forever, obviously, but the labor market is tight enough that I know multiple people who changed tired for a living, were waitresses, etc and went through a bootcamp and now make a solid living as an engineer. For those who actually have Computer Science degrees, the demand is infinitely higher.
- tonyedgecombe 9y ago
  The UK seems to have a particular problem with this: https://www.studyinternational.com/news/uk-computer-science-has-the-highest-rate-of-unemployed-graduates/ https://www.studyinternational.com/news/uk-computer-science-...
ptero 9y ago
Ok, I will bite. I do not think blanked statements "CS or fools" make any sense, but I think a number of folks who dedicated 4-8 years of their lives to getting a liberal arts degree did this without a clear idea of what they can realistically expect at the end and making backup plans. A PhD in English or French culture may make sense, but one must realize that professional opportunities outside academia are sparse and number of positions in academia is small.
- jmenn 9y ago
  They're probably a lot worse inside academia for those fields. That said, everyone I know with an MA in English is doing really well for themselves, both inside and outside the academy. Maybe it's my small sample size though.
- 8fGTBjZxBcHq 9y ago
  This argument is strong only if you consider a BS or BA program a vocational school.
  - closeparen 9y ago
    It seems to be a fairly common viewpoint that your major should be vocational, and you should get a liberal education along the way in core and elective classes.
gaius 9y ago
major other than computer science or engineering The unemployment rate for CS grads in the UK is 10%, one of the highest. It's been up as high as 13% in recent years. The skills shortage is a complete myth designed to lower wages by inflating supply.
- krisroadruck 9y ago
  Just tossing this out there, but do you think it might be marginally possible that not all CS grads are created equal and that on a bell curve, 10% is really not an insane amount to be the left-hand-side tail?
  - gaius 9y ago
    Wouldn't that be the same for all majors? Why are CS grads less employed that graduates in agriculture or civil engineering or even philosophy? Because there's a glut of them.

koonsolo 9y ago

You are twisting my words. I never said poor people are stupid or the other way around. I said the US credit card system puts people without insight into finances in a serious disadvantage. No sorry, it rips them off. And nobody is talking about it, because it seems everybody thinks it's normal. Explain your credit score to a European for example, and you will be met with a blank stare or disbelief.

tylerjwilk00 9y ago
You're still not quite getting it. If people have to choose between going into debt from a finance charge or starving on the street with no roof over their head they will choose the former. It's not about financial education it's about hard choices of the underprivileged.
- koonsolo 9y ago
  I'm not talking about starving on the street, I'm talking about everybody in US using credit cards for payments and repay. I'm talking about shops offering their own credit cards. You know when US people use their credit card? Every day. You know when Europeans use their credit card? When abroad. And our credit gets instantly paid by our normal bank account. For us, a credit card is the same as a debit card but with a delay on it.
  - icebraining 9y ago
    We just have other types of debt. I know so many people paying 120-150% of the price of their TVs, vaccuum cleaners, kitchen appliances (like the €1224 Thermomix, which they've somehow convinced everyone must have), etc thanks to loans offered by subsidiaries of large banks and pushed by the shops.
    - huac 9y ago
      This is basically Affirm's business too.
  - 9y ago