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I wholeheartedly share your "don't run to government" sentiment. However, this sentiment bugs me: > That completely doesn't compute. Google isn't in business

by jMyles 9y ago

I wholeheartedly share your "don't run to government" sentiment. However, this sentiment bugs me: > That completely doesn't compute. Google isn't in business to make things better for society. If we're going to refrain from seeking the violence of state intervention when actors do things we don't like, don't we then have to count on business (and more generally, the market) to do things that we do like? Yes, I want Google to be in business to make things better for society. I'll go even further: I want Google to position itself so that its profit depends on it doing good for society. I was proud of Google when it aligned things this way re: VP8 / webm. If the violence inherent in the state is undesirable - and I agree that it is - then we need to build a society in which the free market selects for societal good.

krapp 9y ago
>If the violence inherent in the state is undesirable - and I agree that it is - then we need to build a society in which the free market selects for societal good. That's not a free market though. The unfortunate truth is, if you want "societal good" to be guaranteed, (given some definition of that) you have to force it to be so - which is what the violence of the state is intended for. Otherwise markets take the path of least resistance to greatest profit, and that may not be a path which benefits society as a whole.
- jMyles 9y ago
  > That's not a free market though. > markets take the path of least resistance to greatest profit I assert that a society in which love and compassion are the orders of the day will, in the demands and price signals it sends to the market, not abide by this orthodoxy. > if you want "societal good" to be guaranteed, (given some definition of that) you have to force it to be so - which is what the violence of the state is intended for The idea that wonderful ends can spring from such unseemly means is not in keeping with what I am able to observe of the universe.
  - krapp 9y ago
    >I assert that a society in which love and compassion are the orders of the day will, in the demands and price signals it sends to the market, not abide by this orthodoxy. Such a market (and society) would seem contrary to human nature, therein lies the problem. People are willing to tolerate mob violence, rape and slavery to spend a bit less for their smartphones. If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. --Alexander Hamilton

by jMyles 9y ago

krapp 9y ago

>If the violence inherent in the state is undesirable - and I agree that it is - then we need to build a society in which the free market selects for societal good. That's not a free market though. The unfortunate truth is, if you want "societal good" to be guaranteed, (given some definition of that) you have to force it to be so - which is what the violence of the state is intended for. Otherwise markets take the path of least resistance to greatest profit, and that may not be a path which benefits society as a whole.

jMyles 9y ago
> That's not a free market though. > markets take the path of least resistance to greatest profit I assert that a society in which love and compassion are the orders of the day will, in the demands and price signals it sends to the market, not abide by this orthodoxy. > if you want "societal good" to be guaranteed, (given some definition of that) you have to force it to be so - which is what the violence of the state is intended for The idea that wonderful ends can spring from such unseemly means is not in keeping with what I am able to observe of the universe.
- krapp 9y ago
  >I assert that a society in which love and compassion are the orders of the day will, in the demands and price signals it sends to the market, not abide by this orthodoxy. Such a market (and society) would seem contrary to human nature, therein lies the problem. People are willing to tolerate mob violence, rape and slavery to spend a bit less for their smartphones. If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. --Alexander Hamilton