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It's heartening to see financial markets helping a company with such potential for positive externalities. Sometimes maybe the system does work!

diegoperini 9y ago
Tesla, just like any other successful company games the system well. The system is neutral at its wildest.
- ajross 9y ago
  The seventy first worthless coin offering just made umpteen million dollars and this site feels it's the market speaking truth to power. The most innovative industrial manufacturer in decades raises money, and it's "gaming the system". Right.
  - quickthrower2 9y ago
    My impression is that "this site" is very skeptical of ICOs, so I'm calling strawman on your comment.
  - diegoperini 9y ago
    Your poetic parody reflects a truth, that's why I stated it is neutral. Gaming the system isn't inherently evil, it wasn't an accusation of bad ethics. To clarify my point, I'd like to paraphrase my previous statement without metaphors. Many evil/fraud companies game the system to access unjust benefits. But every now and then one is able to find some company rising among the other, deserves appreciation. It is only natural to think that such companies must have analyzed the system more than the ones they surpassed, otherwise they would go unnoticed among all the cheaters. Back to metaphor; The system is like a blade: a killing device on a killer, a life saving device on a surgeon. It is true that there seems to exist more killers than savers.
ams6110 9y ago
Positive externalities like 8-year-olds mining cobalt to make the batteries?
- KGIII 9y ago
  Do you have any examples of eight year olds habitually employed mining cobalt? Tougher, can you tie that in to Tesla with confidence? Disclosure: I own quite a few shares in Tesla. They were only ~24.00 USD when I bought them. I admit my bias.
  - Inconel 9y ago
    There was a discussion on HN a few days ago dealing with this issue. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14964857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14964857
    - KGIII 9y ago
      Thank you. I missed that one. I do notice it is specifically about cell phones, though I suspect it is difficult to tell where else it is used. I don't own enough shares to pressure them into ethical sourcing and, honestly, hadn't even given it much thought until just now. I only have ~850 shares. Which, while a bunch, isn't going to influence much. It does make me curious.
      - quickthrower2 9y ago
        You did quite nicely!
      - Inconel 9y ago
        Yes, that article isn't specifically about automotive batteries but I figured it was still fresh in reader's minds. It wouldn't surprise me if ICE cars had similar problems with conflict minerals, particularly in the catalytic converters. I'd love to see a really exhaustive study comparing the environmental effects of ICE and EV cars when taking into account the entire product lifecycle from mining, transport, manufacturing, power generation and distribution, refining, etc. I've seen studies comparing a few of these things but nothing that goes from the time some alloy is mined or oil is taken from the ground through the entire life of an automobile.

diegoperini 9y ago

Tesla, just like any other successful company games the system well. The system is neutral at its wildest.

ajross 9y ago
The seventy first worthless coin offering just made umpteen million dollars and this site feels it's the market speaking truth to power. The most innovative industrial manufacturer in decades raises money, and it's "gaming the system". Right.
- quickthrower2 9y ago
  My impression is that "this site" is very skeptical of ICOs, so I'm calling strawman on your comment.
- diegoperini 9y ago
  Your poetic parody reflects a truth, that's why I stated it is neutral. Gaming the system isn't inherently evil, it wasn't an accusation of bad ethics. To clarify my point, I'd like to paraphrase my previous statement without metaphors. Many evil/fraud companies game the system to access unjust benefits. But every now and then one is able to find some company rising among the other, deserves appreciation. It is only natural to think that such companies must have analyzed the system more than the ones they surpassed, otherwise they would go unnoticed among all the cheaters. Back to metaphor; The system is like a blade: a killing device on a killer, a life saving device on a surgeon. It is true that there seems to exist more killers than savers.

ams6110 9y ago

Positive externalities like 8-year-olds mining cobalt to make the batteries?

KGIII 9y ago
Do you have any examples of eight year olds habitually employed mining cobalt? Tougher, can you tie that in to Tesla with confidence? Disclosure: I own quite a few shares in Tesla. They were only ~24.00 USD when I bought them. I admit my bias.
- Inconel 9y ago
  There was a discussion on HN a few days ago dealing with this issue. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14964857 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14964857
  - KGIII 9y ago
    Thank you. I missed that one. I do notice it is specifically about cell phones, though I suspect it is difficult to tell where else it is used. I don't own enough shares to pressure them into ethical sourcing and, honestly, hadn't even given it much thought until just now. I only have ~850 shares. Which, while a bunch, isn't going to influence much. It does make me curious.
    - quickthrower2 9y ago
      You did quite nicely!
    - Inconel 9y ago
      Yes, that article isn't specifically about automotive batteries but I figured it was still fresh in reader's minds. It wouldn't surprise me if ICE cars had similar problems with conflict minerals, particularly in the catalytic converters. I'd love to see a really exhaustive study comparing the environmental effects of ICE and EV cars when taking into account the entire product lifecycle from mining, transport, manufacturing, power generation and distribution, refining, etc. I've seen studies comparing a few of these things but nothing that goes from the time some alloy is mined or oil is taken from the ground through the entire life of an automobile.