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>The population of China dropped drastically in only 50 years of Mongol rule, down to 50% by some accounts. Actually, the population of china rose during mongo
by davidreiss 9y ago
>The population of China dropped drastically in only 50 years of Mongol rule, down to 50% by some accounts.
Actually, the population of china rose during mongol rule. The population of some parts of northern china declined since many chinese fled to southern. But that got conquered too.
> Iranians were plagued with famine due to the Mongols, and millions died.
No they weren't and no they didn't.
> They killed half a million people invading Rus - this argument that they left the rural people alone, therefore 'peaceful' is nonsense.
Really half a million? Why did russia's population grow so much during the mongol rule then? Russia went from nothing to one of the greatest empire during mongol rule. Wonder how that happened?
Also, most of the deaths occurred in kiev and other "rus" urban areas. Not in the countryside. Russia is a vast territory. A few thousands mongols would have died of exhaustion hunting down and murdering 500K russians over thousands of miles at the very least.
> Saying "oh, they only destroyed cities" is hardly a testament to them being peacable.
I didn't say they were peaceful. I said the mongol empire was peaceful ( pax mongolica ) and the mongols brought stability and rule of law into a wide region.
> They pressed captured men into service as soldiers, on pain of death.
They did? You mean like every empire in human history?
> How is this different to most other empires?
That's my point. They weren't different. But they are "caricatured" as bloody thirsty savages.
> The British Empire happily accepted all races, religions, and ideologies,
Except for the aborigines and the natives the british exterminated. The british are a poor example since theirs was a race based empire.
Anyways, my point is that the mongols were just another empire like any other more or less. Just bigger than most and far more inclusive.
The nonsense about the mongols exterminate this and that and were bloodthirsty is just historically incorrect.
Just like the ludicrous assertion that half of china died under the mongol rule. Feel free to study the Yuan Dynasty. Nothing of the sort happened.
It would have been biologically impossible. As I said, the mongol armies were a few thousand to maybe 20 to 30 thousand strong. Claiming they killed tens of millions of people over the vast territory of asia is ridiculous.
- vacri 9y agoYou've got some pretty strong mythologising going on there. It's not really worth continuing with someone who thinks that an empire that massacres tribal natives = racist and unaccepting, whereas an empire that massacres urban natives = inclusive and accepting.
- davidreiss 9y agoThere is a difference between massacres and extermination campaigns. The mongols sacking baghdad isn't the same as the Nazis exterminating jews or the british exterminating aborigines or native americans. The mongols didn't have a racist/religious ideology which would have led them to go on an extermination campaign. They didn't sack baghdad and go around killing every arab they could find. They didn't sack baghdad because they hated arabs for heir race. They sacked baghdad because their leader executed mongol emissaries. That is different from the race-based extermination campaign where natives and aborigines were outright exterminated because of who they were. That's what separates the mongols from the british empire or nazi germany who specifically set out to exterminate a race. Were the mongols brutal in their subjugation of certain peoples. Of course. But that's how you build empire. As soon as the nation submitted, they pretty much left and collected tribute. They didn't stay behind to wipe out the people. The nazis exterminated ALL jews ( those who fought against them and those who submitted ). > whereas an empire that massacres urban natives = inclusive and accepting. My point was that the mongols went to war against states/nations/empires ( aka that's why they conquered cities ). The mongols didn't wage racial/religious wars of extermination. I'm not saying their massacres of the urban populace is good. It is horrific. But that's what all empires did. What separates british empire and nazi empire from the mongol empire is that the mongols didn't wage extermination wars. They didn't wipe out the russians, arabs, persians, chinese, koreans or anyone else for that matter. There are chinese people in china, arabs in the middle east, persians in iran, russians in russia, etc. Something you can't say about the aborigines in australia or the natives.