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You are absolutely right. That is literally my definition of a good time on a flight. My experience in smaller planes is rather limited, but the time I've spent

by eric_h 9y ago

You are absolutely right. That is literally my definition of a good time on a flight. My experience in smaller planes is rather limited, but the time I've spent on those little prop driven puddle jumpers has always been more enjoyable, as the ride does tend to be a bit bumpier. I've also been on planes with friends who have an abject fear of flying. Throw in a dash of turbulence to a flight like that, and there is literally nothing you can do temper someone's fear of the situation (short of sedatives). Definitely not as fun. Random aside, I went hang gliding once (tandem w/experienced pilot) and ended up going on a particularly "bumpy" day, which all the experienced pilots said with a positive attitude. Bumpy days are days with lots of updrafts and therefore more potential flight time per launch. Definitely felt like turbulence in an airplane, minus the walls and windows ;) I've still yet to jump out of a perfectly good airplane, but it's definitely on my bucket list.

dahart 9y ago
> there is literally nothing you can do temper someone's fear of the situation (short of sedatives). Definitely not as fun. It's so weird. I know consciously that turbulence isn't a safety risk. I know that next to zero planes have gone down due to turbulence, and that specs for modern wings allow for like 15 vertical feet of flex. I've watched shows on the hurricane researchers that voluntarily fly into worse turbulence than any commercial flights have ever seen. It feels physiological, because my body just doesn't seem to care what my head thinks. I wish for sedatives or beta blockers, or something. I can't temper my own fear. Average heavy turbulence is no worse that riding a jeep on a dirt road, and nobody in a jeep fears the vehicle is going to fly apart. (And by nobody, I mean me and imagine it's true of everyone) > I've still yet to jump out of a perfectly good airplane, but it's definitely on my bucket list. It's way crazy fun. Dangerous but I don't regret my time skydiving even though I don't do it anymore. If you spend some time in a wind tunnel first, you may be able to get more out of your skydiving experience. Those weren't really a thing when I was jumping, but now they're all over. This is neither here nor there, but I never jumped out of a perfectly good airplane. They were all crappers. One time I jumped out of a plane than crash landed on it's return (pilot was fine). It might have run out of gas because the DZ people are stingy, and not because the plane had a problem, but still it was a dumpy ride, and most planes I jumped out of I'd rather have jumped than stayed in for the landing. :P
- bitmapbrother 9y ago
  It's interesting to hear that some people actually enjoy turbulence. You would think that anything that introduces stress to aircraft components would be a cause for concern when travelling in a metal tube with little chance of survival in the event of catastrophic failure. Planes are reliant on routine and properly thorough maintenance which isn't exactly a guarantee given the time or cost constraints. And when you couple this with the fact that there are planes flying that are very near their end of life expectancy how could you not help but worry when turbulence hits.
  - dahart 9y ago
    Well, just remember that flying in no turbulence is like 95% of the stress, turbulence only adds a little bit. (I made that number up, but I imagine it's really close to accurate.) Planes are designed for this, they expect flex in the structure and plan for it to happen. Commercial airlines track metal fatigue, and they have allowed safety margins for stress that allows for "normal" to be pretty far past what most of us have ever seen, before they're even concerned. Cars and boats and buses and trains all flex a lot while traveling too. Planes feel worse, but really they're not. So I can totally understand at the conscious level why some people enjoy turbulence. I just wish I could enjoy it too, instead of having a level of fear that is clearly disproportionate to the relative risk. Relative risk wise, my choice to skydive is extremely more dangerous and risky than flying in turbulent aircraft, so I'm pretty far past any reasonable safety analysis.
  - gbacon 9y ago
    FAR 25.303 requires a substantial safety margin for structural loads. § 25.303 Factor of safety. Unless otherwise specified, a factor of safety of 1.5 must be applied to the prescribed limit load which are considered external loads on the structure. When a loading condition is prescribed in terms of ultimate loads, a factor of safety need not be applied unless otherwise specified. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/25.303 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/25.303 Airplanes in the United States are extraordinarily well maintained. Certified airplanes (which include all airliners) must be inspected annually to maintain airworthiness. Yes, you do hear stories of inspections sometimes being pencil-whipped, but these are by far the exceptional cases. The inspection has to be at least supervised (if not performed) and signed off by a certified Airframe & Powerplant (A&P) mechanic with an Inspection Authorization (IA). The A&P certificate requires training, passing a written knowledge test, passing an oral grilling, and passing a practical test. The IA requires additional training and testing. Someone with that much invested is not going to screw around. The annual inspection itself is detailed and thorough, not a quick eyeball. Any discrepancies or issues (squawks) the A&P discovers are potential followon work. Serious squawks must be addressed before the airplane is airworthy, i.e., legal to fly. Further, any airplane flown commercially (be it for flight instruction, aerial survey, or transportation) must be inspected to the standard above after every hundred flight hours. Commercial operators have special certificates to allow them to conduct business that they likewise will not jeopardize by foolishly cutting corners. Commercial pilots have hundreds or thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars invested, so they also have a huge personal stake in playing by the rules. Turbulence is no fun. Catastrophic failure would be even less fun. Safety rules, procedures, systems, and backups are in place that keep safety at the forefront. The airplane can take it. People with significant stake personally and financially have checked, rechecked, and signed off saying that it is safe.
gbacon 9y ago
> nothing you can do temper someone's fear of the situation (short of sedatives) Also known as the B. A. Baracus approach. I fly a nice stable Piper Cherokee Six, so my calibration is probably out of whack for what a hang glider considers to be a bumpy day. The thought of being suspended by a few strands of nylon in turbulence looking at nothing but ground hundreds or thousands of feet below is unsettling.
nunez 9y ago
turbulence on lawnmower planes is a lot of fun!

by eric_h 9y ago

dahart 9y ago

> there is literally nothing you can do temper someone's fear of the situation (short of sedatives). Definitely not as fun. It's so weird. I know consciously that turbulence isn't a safety risk. I know that next to zero planes have gone down due to turbulence, and that specs for modern wings allow for like 15 vertical feet of flex. I've watched shows on the hurricane researchers that voluntarily fly into worse turbulence than any commercial flights have ever seen. It feels physiological, because my body just doesn't seem to care what my head thinks. I wish for sedatives or beta blockers, or something. I can't temper my own fear. Average heavy turbulence is no worse that riding a jeep on a dirt road, and nobody in a jeep fears the vehicle is going to fly apart. (And by nobody, I mean me and imagine it's true of everyone) > I've still yet to jump out of a perfectly good airplane, but it's definitely on my bucket list. It's way crazy fun. Dangerous but I don't regret my time skydiving even though I don't do it anymore. If you spend some time in a wind tunnel first, you may be able to get more out of your skydiving experience. Those weren't really a thing when I was jumping, but now they're all over. This is neither here nor there, but I never jumped out of a perfectly good airplane. They were all crappers. One time I jumped out of a plane than crash landed on it's return (pilot was fine). It might have run out of gas because the DZ people are stingy, and not because the plane had a problem, but still it was a dumpy ride, and most planes I jumped out of I'd rather have jumped than stayed in for the landing. :P

bitmapbrother 9y ago
It's interesting to hear that some people actually enjoy turbulence. You would think that anything that introduces stress to aircraft components would be a cause for concern when travelling in a metal tube with little chance of survival in the event of catastrophic failure. Planes are reliant on routine and properly thorough maintenance which isn't exactly a guarantee given the time or cost constraints. And when you couple this with the fact that there are planes flying that are very near their end of life expectancy how could you not help but worry when turbulence hits.
- dahart 9y ago
  Well, just remember that flying in no turbulence is like 95% of the stress, turbulence only adds a little bit. (I made that number up, but I imagine it's really close to accurate.) Planes are designed for this, they expect flex in the structure and plan for it to happen. Commercial airlines track metal fatigue, and they have allowed safety margins for stress that allows for "normal" to be pretty far past what most of us have ever seen, before they're even concerned. Cars and boats and buses and trains all flex a lot while traveling too. Planes feel worse, but really they're not. So I can totally understand at the conscious level why some people enjoy turbulence. I just wish I could enjoy it too, instead of having a level of fear that is clearly disproportionate to the relative risk. Relative risk wise, my choice to skydive is extremely more dangerous and risky than flying in turbulent aircraft, so I'm pretty far past any reasonable safety analysis.
- gbacon 9y ago
  FAR 25.303 requires a substantial safety margin for structural loads. § 25.303 Factor of safety. Unless otherwise specified, a factor of safety of 1.5 must be applied to the prescribed limit load which are considered external loads on the structure. When a loading condition is prescribed in terms of ultimate loads, a factor of safety need not be applied unless otherwise specified. https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/25.303 https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/25.303 Airplanes in the United States are extraordinarily well maintained. Certified airplanes (which include all airliners) must be inspected annually to maintain airworthiness. Yes, you do hear stories of inspections sometimes being pencil-whipped, but these are by far the exceptional cases. The inspection has to be at least supervised (if not performed) and signed off by a certified Airframe & Powerplant (A&P) mechanic with an Inspection Authorization (IA). The A&P certificate requires training, passing a written knowledge test, passing an oral grilling, and passing a practical test. The IA requires additional training and testing. Someone with that much invested is not going to screw around. The annual inspection itself is detailed and thorough, not a quick eyeball. Any discrepancies or issues (squawks) the A&P discovers are potential followon work. Serious squawks must be addressed before the airplane is airworthy, i.e., legal to fly. Further, any airplane flown commercially (be it for flight instruction, aerial survey, or transportation) must be inspected to the standard above after every hundred flight hours. Commercial operators have special certificates to allow them to conduct business that they likewise will not jeopardize by foolishly cutting corners. Commercial pilots have hundreds or thousands of hours and tens of thousands of dollars invested, so they also have a huge personal stake in playing by the rules. Turbulence is no fun. Catastrophic failure would be even less fun. Safety rules, procedures, systems, and backups are in place that keep safety at the forefront. The airplane can take it. People with significant stake personally and financially have checked, rechecked, and signed off saying that it is safe.

gbacon 9y ago

> nothing you can do temper someone's fear of the situation (short of sedatives) Also known as the B. A. Baracus approach. I fly a nice stable Piper Cherokee Six, so my calibration is probably out of whack for what a hang glider considers to be a bumpy day. The thought of being suspended by a few strands of nylon in turbulence looking at nothing but ground hundreds or thousands of feet below is unsettling.

nunez 9y ago

turbulence on lawnmower planes is a lot of fun!