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BTW I feel the same about calling Trump a "Nazi". For people whose family members have been killed by the Nazi, it sounds like mockery.

kbenson 9y ago
I agree, calling Trump a Nazi is both egregious and it also lessens any coherent argument about similarities between the populism of Trump's base and the beginnings of the Nazi party (not to imply too much similarity, but there is some). The Nazi label should not be trotted out without cause, but should be called into intelligent discussion where warranted. It seems we currently vacillate between using it too easily and too conservatively (Godwin's law). The real problem is that both those extremes contribute to a system in which we believe a similar thing could never happen again by viewing them and their actions as distinct from us and what we are capable of, when there is no distinction. Closely related to the maxim that those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it is that those that view themselves as distinct from history are also doomed to repeat it. :/
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  > (Godwin's law) Does anyone actually know what Godwin's Law says these days? I rarely see anyone mentioning it correctly. Also Mr Godwin himself has come out and said "Call them Nazis" which somewhat voids the whole "Ooh, Godwin" nonsense.
  - kbenson 9y ago
    Well, I think it was never meant to stop people from calling out real parallels, just those egregious uses where it was inappropriate and used only for shock value. Even the more benign uses of the term probably have some eroding effect on its potency, even if small. "grammar nazi" comes to mind. People sometimes refer to themselves that way somewhat affectionately. We don't see people using "pedophile" the same way. I can't say I think Godwin's original complaint was wrong.
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      It was never meant to stop or do anything because it was an observation about probability - much like Benford's Law is an observation about the frequency of digits but doesn't tell you anything about a particular one. (Clumsy analogy but hopefully makes sense.)

kbenson 9y ago

I agree, calling Trump a Nazi is both egregious and it also lessens any coherent argument about similarities between the populism of Trump's base and the beginnings of the Nazi party (not to imply too much similarity, but there is some). The Nazi label should not be trotted out without cause, but should be called into intelligent discussion where warranted. It seems we currently vacillate between using it too easily and too conservatively (Godwin's law). The real problem is that both those extremes contribute to a system in which we believe a similar thing could never happen again by viewing them and their actions as distinct from us and what we are capable of, when there is no distinction. Closely related to the maxim that those that do not know history are doomed to repeat it is that those that view themselves as distinct from history are also doomed to repeat it. :/

zimpenfish 9y ago
> (Godwin's law) Does anyone actually know what Godwin's Law says these days? I rarely see anyone mentioning it correctly. Also Mr Godwin himself has come out and said "Call them Nazis" which somewhat voids the whole "Ooh, Godwin" nonsense.
- kbenson 9y ago
  Well, I think it was never meant to stop people from calling out real parallels, just those egregious uses where it was inappropriate and used only for shock value. Even the more benign uses of the term probably have some eroding effect on its potency, even if small. "grammar nazi" comes to mind. People sometimes refer to themselves that way somewhat affectionately. We don't see people using "pedophile" the same way. I can't say I think Godwin's original complaint was wrong.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    It was never meant to stop or do anything because it was an observation about probability - much like Benford's Law is an observation about the frequency of digits but doesn't tell you anything about a particular one. (Clumsy analogy but hopefully makes sense.)