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"In my document, I committed heresy against the Google creed by stating that not all disparities between men and women that we see in the world are the result o

"In my document, I committed heresy against the Google creed by stating that not all disparities between men and women that we see in the world are the result of discriminatory treatment." If that is why Mr. Damore thinks he's being lambasted, he really doesn't get it.

true_religion 9y ago
Well obviously. He's not a politician. He won't come out and debase himself in a false apology for his views. His worldview is fundamentally different from that of his opponents, and he makes no bones about it.
akhilcacharya 9y ago
I don't work there nor do I know anybody that works there personally, but I can think of at least 1 Googler who has ignited firestorms over "fringe" beliefs on personal social media before. She's still at the company. As much as I disagree with his viewpoint I seriously doubt this would have been terribly big deal if he had approached the issue with more tact, at minimum.
engel 9y ago
He doesn't get what? Do most people attacking him not have that belief?
- patrickyan 9y ago
  The point of diversity isn't to force everyone to think men and women are identical in every capacity. The point of diversity is to create a desired environment with different kinds of people.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - engel 9y ago
    > The point of diversity isn't to force everyone to think men and women are identical in every capacity. I don't think he thinks that. At least not if we are to believe the memo. However I do think many of the responses took offence with the idea of biological differences between men and women. And maybe rightly so, since some of them referred to seemingly good research showing that he at least overstated his claims. What many of the responders don't seem to get, is that a good reply shouldn't dependent on whether differences exist or not. Instead it should tackle the question of how we treat different people equally. When should we try and level the playing field, and when should we accept that gender gaps (and other kinds of gaps) appear?
dguaraglia 9y ago
The weird thing is that there isn't a document, anywhere, that says it's a "Google value" that all "people are equal in every capacity." Sure, Google is for diversity - as they should - but the only person making a point of bringing in biological variance or equality is Damore.
ihsw2 9y ago
Is he being lambasted for being held up as a martyr by the anti-diversity crowd, despite his memo plainly stating he values diversity wholeheartedly? Or is it because he is able to make a cogent argument against blind dogma and fanatical ideology? The basis of his argument is that, with regards to hiring processes, we should treat people as individuals rather than just another member of a group. Furthermore he squarely targets neo-Marxist social constructivist ideology that divides society into oppressors and oppressed, claiming it is a flawed methodology to base your company's business on.
kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago
Not sure what you mean, because plenty of people lambasting him ARE indeed lambasting him over the suggestion that it's incorrect to insist that anything short of a 50-50 gender ratio at Google is because of discrimination against women. Of course they are not lambasting him in those words (that would be charitable). They are saying ridiculous nonsense like "Google employee claims women are inferior than men" or "Google employee claims women are not suited to be software engineers".
- dguaraglia 9y ago
  > Of course they are not lambasting him in those words (that would be charitable). They are saying ridiculous nonsense like "Google employee claims women are inferior than men" or "Google employee claims women are not suited to be software engineers" Things he wraps around in cozy wording, but essentially suggests to be true. If not, what's the point of him complaining about outreach efforts? It's not like right now we are in a scenario where, say, 45% of the engineering workforce at Google is female, and Google is trying to force a 50/50 split. It's not even close. Right now the number is 20%, are you telling me it's settled science that should be the ratio? Because if you have hard numbers proving that's the case, then by all means, Google is wasting money in outreach efforts. You should tell them right now.

true_religion 9y ago

Well obviously. He's not a politician. He won't come out and debase himself in a false apology for his views. His worldview is fundamentally different from that of his opponents, and he makes no bones about it.

akhilcacharya 9y ago

I don't work there nor do I know anybody that works there personally, but I can think of at least 1 Googler who has ignited firestorms over "fringe" beliefs on personal social media before. She's still at the company. As much as I disagree with his viewpoint I seriously doubt this would have been terribly big deal if he had approached the issue with more tact, at minimum.

engel 9y ago

He doesn't get what? Do most people attacking him not have that belief?

patrickyan 9y ago
The point of diversity isn't to force everyone to think men and women are identical in every capacity. The point of diversity is to create a desired environment with different kinds of people.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- engel 9y ago
  > The point of diversity isn't to force everyone to think men and women are identical in every capacity. I don't think he thinks that. At least not if we are to believe the memo. However I do think many of the responses took offence with the idea of biological differences between men and women. And maybe rightly so, since some of them referred to seemingly good research showing that he at least overstated his claims. What many of the responders don't seem to get, is that a good reply shouldn't dependent on whether differences exist or not. Instead it should tackle the question of how we treat different people equally. When should we try and level the playing field, and when should we accept that gender gaps (and other kinds of gaps) appear?

dguaraglia 9y ago

The weird thing is that there isn't a document, anywhere, that says it's a "Google value" that all "people are equal in every capacity." Sure, Google is for diversity - as they should - but the only person making a point of bringing in biological variance or equality is Damore.

ihsw2 9y ago

Is he being lambasted for being held up as a martyr by the anti-diversity crowd, despite his memo plainly stating he values diversity wholeheartedly? Or is it because he is able to make a cogent argument against blind dogma and fanatical ideology? The basis of his argument is that, with regards to hiring processes, we should treat people as individuals rather than just another member of a group. Furthermore he squarely targets neo-Marxist social constructivist ideology that divides society into oppressors and oppressed, claiming it is a flawed methodology to base your company's business on.

kinkrtyavimoodh 9y ago

Not sure what you mean, because plenty of people lambasting him ARE indeed lambasting him over the suggestion that it's incorrect to insist that anything short of a 50-50 gender ratio at Google is because of discrimination against women. Of course they are not lambasting him in those words (that would be charitable). They are saying ridiculous nonsense like "Google employee claims women are inferior than men" or "Google employee claims women are not suited to be software engineers".

dguaraglia 9y ago
> Of course they are not lambasting him in those words (that would be charitable). They are saying ridiculous nonsense like "Google employee claims women are inferior than men" or "Google employee claims women are not suited to be software engineers" Things he wraps around in cozy wording, but essentially suggests to be true. If not, what's the point of him complaining about outreach efforts? It's not like right now we are in a scenario where, say, 45% of the engineering workforce at Google is female, and Google is trying to force a 50/50 split. It's not even close. Right now the number is 20%, are you telling me it's settled science that should be the ratio? Because if you have hard numbers proving that's the case, then by all means, Google is wasting money in outreach efforts. You should tell them right now.