6 ms·

The Minifree Libreboot T400 is free as in freedom

78 points by janober 9y ago

bowmessage 9y ago
Better hope that Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 doesn't run the Intel Management Engine
- privong 9y ago
  > Better hope that Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 doesn't run the Intel Management Engine This is clearly stated on the product website (https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/ https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/): The Libreboot T400 comes without the Intel Management Engine or AMD PSP!
  - bowmessage 9y ago
    Oops. My mistake, thanks for pointing it out. I thought the model name sounded rather old.
  - userbinator 9y ago
    It's a 7-year-old CPU, which predates ME but should still be quite usable for a lot of things.
    - kogepathic 9y ago
      9 years old: Q3 2008 http://ark.intel.com/products/35569/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-P8400-3M-Cache-2_26-GHz-1066-MHz-FSB http://ark.intel.com/products/35569/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processo...
clircle 9y ago
Never thought I would see something like this from TechCrunch. I would never buy one of these but I'm just glad that word is spreading about these machines.
rmmm 9y ago
It is very cool to see TechCrunch give some publicity to a product and project like this. A few thoughts though. When I buy products like this, it's not to "stick it to the man". I would love major companies to provide freedom respecting hardware and software, and I would say most of the hackers I know feel that way. We just don't have many options. We'd have no problems supporting "corporate interests" that cared about free software and didn't mistreat their customers. Free software isn't about being anti-corporate, it's about being pro-freedom.
feelin_googley 9y ago
"No-OS is also possible, besides Trisquel. Mention "no OS" in the textbox on checkout, and we will ship it with Libreboot but without an OS installed." Source: https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/ https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/ Been waiting a long time for some PC/laptop vendor to finally have enough faith in their own pre-installed OS^1 or hardware to sell computers with the option of no pre-installed OS. IMHO, this shows respect for the user, e.g., one who uses an OS that no manufacturer will ever pre-install (c'est moi). And IMHO it shows that the product being purchased is in fact hardware, nothing more; the OS I use is free so this makes perfect sense. To whomever decided to offer this option: great job! ^1. "faith in their own pre-installed OS" because IMHO a no-OS option means there is always the risk a user will choose it over a pre-installed OS. Assuming the pre-installed OS comes with pre-installed crapware, collects user data, tracks user location, serves ads, restricts software that can run to an "app store", or some other tactic to generate ongoing revenue, then any user opting out is a lost opportunity for the seller. Of course if the pre-installed OS is truly superior to any free alternative that the user could herself install, then there should be no risk in offering a no-OS option. No user would ever choose it.
- ams6110 9y ago
  I can't ever recall using the pre-installed OS on any computer I've ever purchased (not counting smartphones).
  - gbraad 9y ago
    I do, to verify the machine is as requested/ordered and works as expected. I have returned/replaced a machine before that had issues. Because of the OS was as expected, the manufacturer had no difficulty determining the machine was faulty.
- Shoop 9y ago
  What OS do you use?
- slipstream- 9y ago
  I tend to buy from a UK vendor who I found out about through favourable magazine reviews. The last few times I ordered from them, they offered no-OS options (which in practise meant a preinstalled but non-activated Windows, and Windows reinstallation media provided).
tunesmith 9y ago
What are the other machines that are close to free? I know about Librem Purism, but I seem to remember another thing is being funded that might be based off of Risc or something.
- librexpr 9y ago
  I don't know about Risc, but you might want to check out the FSF's Respects Your Freedom certification[0]. The article doesn't mention it, but the Minifree T400 is itself RYF-certified. You might also want to check out h-node[1] (also by the FSF). I haven't looked into it much, but it seems to be a site dedicated to finding hardware that can be used with completely free software. [0] https://fsf.org/ryf https://fsf.org/ryf [1] https://h-node.org/ https://h-node.org/
  - jancsika 9y ago
    There's also the EOMA68 project: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop And somebody else who appears to be building a shader compiler for the Mali 400 GPU here: https://github.com/yuq/mesa-lima https://github.com/yuq/mesa-lima If both these projects succeed that would be a fully free arm laptop with a fully free GPU driver. Apparently it will also be possible to print out the laptop itself using a 3d printer apparently being designed and built by that same EOMA68 guy to deliver the boxes people already ordered. Also it looks like the touchpad is just a little square of lcd touchscreen. If that part of the design is kept theoretically you could play quake inside the touchpad.
- amock 9y ago
  The Talos II is a modern workstation https://raptorcs.com/ https://raptorcs.com/.
  - girvo 9y ago
    Oh wow; I've been doing a lot of work with POWER8 servers recently, and this looks absolutely brilliant. Definitely going to see if we can preorder one.
Fej 9y ago
I mean... the sentiment is fantastic, and we need more hardware like this. Desperately. But...these just aren't really usable for its target audience. The biggest sticking point is the screen resolution. Come on, it's 2017, and 1280x800 just isn't enough. The other sticking point is the processor. It's unfortunately necessary to use an ancient one to avoid Intel ME. This comes with a massive performance bottleneck and increased power consumption. To build a properly useful free laptop requires a non-x86 processor, as it stands. The P8400 is 9 years old. We cannot rely on decade-old technology for our computing. On a side note, did anyone ever buy the KDE Slimbook?
- amiga-workbench 9y ago
  I'm still using an X201 tablet, 1280x800 is largely okay for me. A lot of the problems come from modern, over designed software UI's with padding out the wazoo and a shitty information density.
rwmj 9y ago
I built something like this: https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2016/04/10/libreboot-on-my-x60s/ https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2016/04/10/libreboot-on-my-x60s/ I'm glad that a company is stepping up to build these because the situation with libreboot/coreboot is very confusing. I think the projects forked, plus the documentation is terrible. As an 11 year old, 32 bit laptop it's not for everyone, but the X60s is small, light and rugged — a real classic — the last version that IBM designed before the Thinkpad brand was acquired by Lenovo. The main problem is sourcing batteries.
- initself 9y ago
  The main problem is that it runs hot as f*ck on the right palm rest, making it basically unusable.
jackvalentine 9y ago
I don't say this to be mean, but what about things like hard disk firmware?

78 points by janober 9y ago

bowmessage 9y ago

Better hope that Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 doesn't run the Intel Management Engine

privong 9y ago
> Better hope that Intel Core 2 Duo P8400 doesn't run the Intel Management Engine This is clearly stated on the product website (https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/ https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/): The Libreboot T400 comes without the Intel Management Engine or AMD PSP!
- bowmessage 9y ago
  Oops. My mistake, thanks for pointing it out. I thought the model name sounded rather old.
- userbinator 9y ago
  It's a 7-year-old CPU, which predates ME but should still be quite usable for a lot of things.
  - kogepathic 9y ago
    9 years old: Q3 2008 http://ark.intel.com/products/35569/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processor-P8400-3M-Cache-2_26-GHz-1066-MHz-FSB http://ark.intel.com/products/35569/Intel-Core2-Duo-Processo...

clircle 9y ago

Never thought I would see something like this from TechCrunch. I would never buy one of these but I'm just glad that word is spreading about these machines.

rmmm 9y ago

It is very cool to see TechCrunch give some publicity to a product and project like this. A few thoughts though. When I buy products like this, it's not to "stick it to the man". I would love major companies to provide freedom respecting hardware and software, and I would say most of the hackers I know feel that way. We just don't have many options. We'd have no problems supporting "corporate interests" that cared about free software and didn't mistreat their customers. Free software isn't about being anti-corporate, it's about being pro-freedom.

feelin_googley 9y ago

"No-OS is also possible, besides Trisquel. Mention "no OS" in the textbox on checkout, and we will ship it with Libreboot but without an OS installed." Source: https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/ https://minifree.org/product/libreboot-t400/ Been waiting a long time for some PC/laptop vendor to finally have enough faith in their own pre-installed OS^1 or hardware to sell computers with the option of no pre-installed OS. IMHO, this shows respect for the user, e.g., one who uses an OS that no manufacturer will ever pre-install (c'est moi). And IMHO it shows that the product being purchased is in fact hardware, nothing more; the OS I use is free so this makes perfect sense. To whomever decided to offer this option: great job! ^1. "faith in their own pre-installed OS" because IMHO a no-OS option means there is always the risk a user will choose it over a pre-installed OS. Assuming the pre-installed OS comes with pre-installed crapware, collects user data, tracks user location, serves ads, restricts software that can run to an "app store", or some other tactic to generate ongoing revenue, then any user opting out is a lost opportunity for the seller. Of course if the pre-installed OS is truly superior to any free alternative that the user could herself install, then there should be no risk in offering a no-OS option. No user would ever choose it.

ams6110 9y ago
I can't ever recall using the pre-installed OS on any computer I've ever purchased (not counting smartphones).
- gbraad 9y ago
  I do, to verify the machine is as requested/ordered and works as expected. I have returned/replaced a machine before that had issues. Because of the OS was as expected, the manufacturer had no difficulty determining the machine was faulty.
Shoop 9y ago
What OS do you use?
slipstream- 9y ago
I tend to buy from a UK vendor who I found out about through favourable magazine reviews. The last few times I ordered from them, they offered no-OS options (which in practise meant a preinstalled but non-activated Windows, and Windows reinstallation media provided).

tunesmith 9y ago

What are the other machines that are close to free? I know about Librem Purism, but I seem to remember another thing is being funded that might be based off of Risc or something.

librexpr 9y ago
I don't know about Risc, but you might want to check out the FSF's Respects Your Freedom certification[0]. The article doesn't mention it, but the Minifree T400 is itself RYF-certified. You might also want to check out h-node[1] (also by the FSF). I haven't looked into it much, but it seems to be a site dedicated to finding hardware that can be used with completely free software. [0] https://fsf.org/ryf https://fsf.org/ryf [1] https://h-node.org/ https://h-node.org/
- jancsika 9y ago
  There's also the EOMA68 project: https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop https://www.crowdsupply.com/eoma68/micro-desktop And somebody else who appears to be building a shader compiler for the Mali 400 GPU here: https://github.com/yuq/mesa-lima https://github.com/yuq/mesa-lima If both these projects succeed that would be a fully free arm laptop with a fully free GPU driver. Apparently it will also be possible to print out the laptop itself using a 3d printer apparently being designed and built by that same EOMA68 guy to deliver the boxes people already ordered. Also it looks like the touchpad is just a little square of lcd touchscreen. If that part of the design is kept theoretically you could play quake inside the touchpad.
amock 9y ago
The Talos II is a modern workstation https://raptorcs.com/ https://raptorcs.com/.
- girvo 9y ago
  Oh wow; I've been doing a lot of work with POWER8 servers recently, and this looks absolutely brilliant. Definitely going to see if we can preorder one.

Fej 9y ago

I mean... the sentiment is fantastic, and we need more hardware like this. Desperately. But...these just aren't really usable for its target audience. The biggest sticking point is the screen resolution. Come on, it's 2017, and 1280x800 just isn't enough. The other sticking point is the processor. It's unfortunately necessary to use an ancient one to avoid Intel ME. This comes with a massive performance bottleneck and increased power consumption. To build a properly useful free laptop requires a non-x86 processor, as it stands. The P8400 is 9 years old. We cannot rely on decade-old technology for our computing. On a side note, did anyone ever buy the KDE Slimbook?

amiga-workbench 9y ago
I'm still using an X201 tablet, 1280x800 is largely okay for me. A lot of the problems come from modern, over designed software UI's with padding out the wazoo and a shitty information density.

rwmj 9y ago

I built something like this: https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2016/04/10/libreboot-on-my-x60s/ https://rwmj.wordpress.com/2016/04/10/libreboot-on-my-x60s/ I'm glad that a company is stepping up to build these because the situation with libreboot/coreboot is very confusing. I think the projects forked, plus the documentation is terrible. As an 11 year old, 32 bit laptop it's not for everyone, but the X60s is small, light and rugged — a real classic — the last version that IBM designed before the Thinkpad brand was acquired by Lenovo. The main problem is sourcing batteries.

initself 9y ago
The main problem is that it runs hot as f*ck on the right palm rest, making it basically unusable.

jackvalentine 9y ago

I don't say this to be mean, but what about things like hard disk firmware?