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From my perspective, you just contradicted yourself, can you help me understand why it's not a contradiction? The IQ distribution of men and women is slightly

From my perspective, you just contradicted yourself, can you help me understand why it's not a contradiction? The IQ distribution of men and women is slightly different, and this is essentially settled science (it really is, however much we might pontificate -- our genetic past rolls the dice more with males). The male curve is slightly fatter, yielding larger numbers of exceptionally high and exceptionally low members. This means absolutely nothing if you have a male with an IQ of 140 and a female with an IQ of 140, however. Nor does it mean a 100 IQ male should be working at Google because there are slightly more high IQ males born. We are smart enough to understand the difference between set probabilities and individual traits. Right? because the distribution of women in tech has changed drastically in the last 50 years faster than evolution's say in the matter Obviously there are social factors. That is indisputable. But at a point the gains in leveling the sexes for some domains become harder to get because there are confounding factors. Women in engineering has stayed virtually constant for several decades now.

dahart 9y ago
> The IQ distribution of men and women is slightly different, and this is essentially settled science How different? Can you source this claim? Are the means & medians at different places? How far apart are they? Are they far enough part to justify a male/female ratio in the tech workforce of 4x? I'm not arguing with you, but you are contradicting the article at hand. "the mainstream view is that male and female abilities are the same across the vast majority of domains — I.Q., the ability to do math, etc." > Women in engineering has stayed virtually constant for several decades now. Which decades are you talking about? Which countries are you talking about? Please source this wildly inaccurate claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_women_in_engineering#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_women_in_engineerin... "According to studies by the National Science Foundation, the percentage of BA/BS degrees in engineering awarded to women in the U.S. increased steadily from 0.4 percent in 1966 to a peak of 20.9 percent in 2002" That's a factor of 40x in 40 years. That doesn't sound super constant to me. How fast does evolution work again? "Only 9.6% of engineers in Australia are women" Interesting. Does that mean it's likely that Australian women are biologically only half as engineering capable as American women?
- endorphone 9y ago
  The difference between male and female IQ curves is easily found, and is scientifically settled. I don't particularly care if I'm contradicting the article at hand -- I'm not trying to vouch for it, but am saying that it's a rational discussion. >Please source this wildly inaccurate claim. I said for several decades. You cite the change for over five decades. From 1990 to today -- closing on three decades -- women in engineering has stayed virtually unchanged in the US. You seem to be taking the shotgun approach, and seem wholly ingenuine in discussing this rationally, so I would say this discussion is done.
  - dahart 9y ago
    > The difference between male and female IQ curves is easily found, and is scientifically settled. Can you either source this or summarize, assuming that I genuinely want to know? How big is the difference in mean & median? Do you believe the difference is primarily responsible for the difference in distribution? > I said for several decades. You cite the change for over five decades. You're going to nitpick over 3 vs 5? Are you saying that the distribution of women wasn't in a steady state in the 1970's but it reached steady state in the 1990's, and that now the distributions are primarily reflective of innate biology and not social causes? The distribution of women in computer science is quite different than the distribution of women in engineering - very roughly 2x as I understand. Do you think that computer science is significantly and measurably more prone to being affected by our biological differences than engineering? I'm think I'm bringing up reasonable points, is it really a stretch to ask about different countries and different disciplines? The memo's reasoning should reasonably apply to all women in all businesses in all countries, not just engineering or tech. He even cited gender discrepancies that are cross-cultural, this is absolutely fair game. > You seem to be taking the shotgun approach, and seem wholly ingenuine in discussing this rationally I'm sorry that it's getting tough for you. I'm very genuine and very serious. I disagree that I'm being irrational, but you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just hearing defensiveness about the claims stated as fact being true. I willingly accept that there are biological differences between men and women. What I don't see clearly is a rational justification for ignoring cultural sexism.

dahart 9y ago

> The IQ distribution of men and women is slightly different, and this is essentially settled science How different? Can you source this claim? Are the means & medians at different places? How far apart are they? Are they far enough part to justify a male/female ratio in the tech workforce of 4x? I'm not arguing with you, but you are contradicting the article at hand. "the mainstream view is that male and female abilities are the same across the vast majority of domains — I.Q., the ability to do math, etc." > Women in engineering has stayed virtually constant for several decades now. Which decades are you talking about? Which countries are you talking about? Please source this wildly inaccurate claim. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_women_in_engineering#Statistics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_women_in_engineerin... "According to studies by the National Science Foundation, the percentage of BA/BS degrees in engineering awarded to women in the U.S. increased steadily from 0.4 percent in 1966 to a peak of 20.9 percent in 2002" That's a factor of 40x in 40 years. That doesn't sound super constant to me. How fast does evolution work again? "Only 9.6% of engineers in Australia are women" Interesting. Does that mean it's likely that Australian women are biologically only half as engineering capable as American women?

endorphone 9y ago
The difference between male and female IQ curves is easily found, and is scientifically settled. I don't particularly care if I'm contradicting the article at hand -- I'm not trying to vouch for it, but am saying that it's a rational discussion. >Please source this wildly inaccurate claim. I said for several decades. You cite the change for over five decades. From 1990 to today -- closing on three decades -- women in engineering has stayed virtually unchanged in the US. You seem to be taking the shotgun approach, and seem wholly ingenuine in discussing this rationally, so I would say this discussion is done.
- dahart 9y ago
  > The difference between male and female IQ curves is easily found, and is scientifically settled. Can you either source this or summarize, assuming that I genuinely want to know? How big is the difference in mean & median? Do you believe the difference is primarily responsible for the difference in distribution? > I said for several decades. You cite the change for over five decades. You're going to nitpick over 3 vs 5? Are you saying that the distribution of women wasn't in a steady state in the 1970's but it reached steady state in the 1990's, and that now the distributions are primarily reflective of innate biology and not social causes? The distribution of women in computer science is quite different than the distribution of women in engineering - very roughly 2x as I understand. Do you think that computer science is significantly and measurably more prone to being affected by our biological differences than engineering? I'm think I'm bringing up reasonable points, is it really a stretch to ask about different countries and different disciplines? The memo's reasoning should reasonably apply to all women in all businesses in all countries, not just engineering or tech. He even cited gender discrepancies that are cross-cultural, this is absolutely fair game. > You seem to be taking the shotgun approach, and seem wholly ingenuine in discussing this rationally I'm sorry that it's getting tough for you. I'm very genuine and very serious. I disagree that I'm being irrational, but you are entitled to your opinion. I'm just hearing defensiveness about the claims stated as fact being true. I willingly accept that there are biological differences between men and women. What I don't see clearly is a rational justification for ignoring cultural sexism.