5 ms·

Why does SoundCloud need labels? They just need a way to make money with independent musicians.

islanderfun 9y ago
I also believe it can make money on independent musicians. But can independent musicians money scale to VC expectations?
- bhalp1 9y ago
  Well at this point the expectations are a little lower. "Anything but going all the way to zero" seems like the current tone.
  - acchow 9y ago
    > "Anything but going all the way to zero" seems like the current tone. You don't invest in a company without expectations of ROI
- oelmekki 9y ago
  I'm not a VC so I may be totally wrong here, but it seems to me that what they expect to scale is not revenue, but valuation (providing further investors match this valuation). Should Soundcloud revenue raises slowly but they do an IPO, I guess investors would be perfectly fine. Edit : of course, it seems their doing a downround, so those expectations are not in good shape either.
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
sytse 9y ago
The problem is much of the independent content like remixes touches major label copyrights.
bogomipz 9y ago
I think it's tricky specifically with DJ culture in that if I make a remix or a mashup and that includes somebody else's content, that content needs to be licensed. When a DJ is spinning in a club or venue however using someone else's content is covered by the venue in the form of fees paid to ASCAP, BMI or some other such publishing rights society.
- bigbugbag 9y ago
  > When a DJ is spinning in a club or venue however using someone else's content is covered by the venue in the form of fees paid to ASCAP, BMI or some other such publishing rights society. This is not true in many parts of the world.
  - bogomipz 9y ago
    Care to elaborate where in the world artists don't have access to performance rights societies or copyright collectives? See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_rights_organisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_rights_organisatio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_copyright_collection_societies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_copyright_collection_s... https://www.ascap.com/help/international/affiliated-foreign-societies https://www.ascap.com/help/international/affiliated-foreign-... Its up to the artist to register with a PRO or to affiliate with a publisher that will do so for them. ASCAP despite the A in the name will collect performance rights worldwide and anyone that meets the basic requirements is welcome to join regardless of what country you live in. See: http://blog.songtrust.com/uncategorized/ask-songtrust-publishing-songs-of-non-us-songwriters-with-us-pros/ http://blog.songtrust.com/uncategorized/ask-songtrust-publis...
bigbugbag 9y ago
Without a label licensing deal, soundcloud is not worth buying due the risk of a lawsuit.
- nitrogen 9y ago
  Then some enterprising lawyer should arrange a class action lawsuit on behalf of one-off independent musicians against the labels for those labels interfering in the independent musicians' ability to exercise their copyrights.

I also believe it can make money on independent musicians. But can independent musicians money scale to VC expectations?

bhalp1 9y ago
Well at this point the expectations are a little lower. "Anything but going all the way to zero" seems like the current tone.
- acchow 9y ago
  > "Anything but going all the way to zero" seems like the current tone. You don't invest in a company without expectations of ROI
oelmekki 9y ago
I'm not a VC so I may be totally wrong here, but it seems to me that what they expect to scale is not revenue, but valuation (providing further investors match this valuation). Should Soundcloud revenue raises slowly but they do an IPO, I guess investors would be perfectly fine. Edit : of course, it seems their doing a downround, so those expectations are not in good shape either.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

sytse 9y ago

The problem is much of the independent content like remixes touches major label copyrights.

bogomipz 9y ago

I think it's tricky specifically with DJ culture in that if I make a remix or a mashup and that includes somebody else's content, that content needs to be licensed. When a DJ is spinning in a club or venue however using someone else's content is covered by the venue in the form of fees paid to ASCAP, BMI or some other such publishing rights society.

bigbugbag 9y ago
> When a DJ is spinning in a club or venue however using someone else's content is covered by the venue in the form of fees paid to ASCAP, BMI or some other such publishing rights society. This is not true in many parts of the world.
- bogomipz 9y ago
  Care to elaborate where in the world artists don't have access to performance rights societies or copyright collectives? See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_rights_organisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Performance_rights_organisatio... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_copyright_collection_societies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_copyright_collection_s... https://www.ascap.com/help/international/affiliated-foreign-societies https://www.ascap.com/help/international/affiliated-foreign-... Its up to the artist to register with a PRO or to affiliate with a publisher that will do so for them. ASCAP despite the A in the name will collect performance rights worldwide and anyone that meets the basic requirements is welcome to join regardless of what country you live in. See: http://blog.songtrust.com/uncategorized/ask-songtrust-publishing-songs-of-non-us-songwriters-with-us-pros/ http://blog.songtrust.com/uncategorized/ask-songtrust-publis...

bigbugbag 9y ago

Without a label licensing deal, soundcloud is not worth buying due the risk of a lawsuit.

nitrogen 9y ago
Then some enterprising lawyer should arrange a class action lawsuit on behalf of one-off independent musicians against the labels for those labels interfering in the independent musicians' ability to exercise their copyrights.