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I am surprised that the majority of commenters believe that this marks the end of SoundCloud. SC just secured $170M in new funding with $100M revenue run rate.

I am surprised that the majority of commenters believe that this marks the end of SoundCloud. SC just secured $170M in new funding with $100M revenue run rate. They have a product that many users and creators love. The new CEO is a Harvard Business School grad with experience as CEO of Vimeo, a similar media business. He brought the COO of Vimeo with him. If SC can reduce cost (not knowing what the drivers are, it is unclear how easy that is), they might be able to reach profitability quickly. This might be the start of operating SC like a real company by a real operating team. "The new management should provide some additional confidence. I’d interviewed both Ljung and Wahlforss in the past, and neither had answers to the big questions facing SoundCloud about its product direction, business model, and the spurious copyright takedowns that have eroded its trust with musicians." On the other hand, existing employees equity value is likely wiped out in the down round. They are underwater on strike price of options, face additional dilution from prior investors' anti-dilution provisions and now liquidation multiples/preference from investors.

seizethecheese 9y ago
> The new CEO is a Harvard Business School grad Yeah, they're toast.
- WisNorCan 9y ago
  That is just a bias that I recommend you try to get over. It will help you better assess people and situations. We can debate the long list of HBS graduates that have been amazing operators in tech companies. Every CS grad isn't a great CEO & every HBS grad isn't a terrible CEO. I wish the world was that simple.
  - exogeny 9y ago
    I could counter that you need to get over your own bias, which is the implication that a CEO is going to be successful or is suitable for the role simply because he went to Harvard.
    - gist 9y ago
      I chuckled at that one as well. [1] You'd be surprised at the number of graduates doing simply ordinary or mediocre things. Not that there is anything wrong with that - not my point. Just that the halo is often the best thing that someone is left with years after graduating. Now if someone were to say that a Harvard Business School grad came back home to try and help their small family business I might think the statement is more appropriate. But at the level where you get a job like this not as much so. [1] And I went to one of those 'good schools' (Not that one but in the same category let's say).
      - felipemnoa 9y ago
        >>Just that the halo is often the best thing that someone is left with years after graduating. I do not exactly get what you are trying to say here. I'm not being snarky but rather genuinely curious. Could you explain?
        gist 9y ago
        The halo 'the branding' of the school is very often more powerful than what you actually learn there. Maybe similar to getting an academy award is better than whatever money you might make from getting an academy award (or a nomination). The branding and the halo of that degree opens up doors and generally tends to lead to positive acceptance in a wide variety of situations.
    - WisNorCan 9y ago
      I didn't claim that. Please re-read my comments and point out where I claimed that. I said "every HBS grad isn't a terrible CEO". It does not imply "every Harvard grad is a great CEO". On SC specifically, I do believe that a company that has had issues with financial management and business model will benefit from someone with business training and experience operating a media business with similar characteristics. Kerry seems like a solid hire for the role. He may still fail.
      - hobofan 9y ago
  - 77pt77 9y ago
    >> Yeah, they're toast. > That is just a bias OK. Later: > We can debate the long list of HBS graduates that have been amazing operators in tech companies How is that not survivor bias?
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - bigbugbag 9y ago
    It may be a bias, but it is founded. This guy is here to do business not music or sharing, he lacks the actual experience and understanding that he'd have if he were an artist or music lover, which will eventually achieve to kill soundcloud as it was or could have been.
    - detaro 9y ago
      Because Vimeo is such a corporate money-focused alternative to the artsy YouTube?
    - ralmeida 9y ago
      People don't list "music lover" in their resumes. Nor does the fact that he's a professional CEO means he's tone deaf (pun intended) to the company's vision, or that he will destroy it (due to malice or musical incompetence).
- bionicbrian 9y ago
  He's also on the board for Fender. :) https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/board.asp?privcapId=1468570 https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/board.asp?...
- senorjazz 9y ago
  I was thinking the same, just what Soundcloud needs..... :-\
- ryanwaggoner 9y ago
  Why do otherwise intelligent people (I'm assuming) continue with this garbage heuristic? https://www.quora.com/What-successful-tech-startups-have-been-founded-by-Harvard-Business-School-graduates-since-the-mid-90s https://www.quora.com/What-successful-tech-startups-have-bee...
- erikvoltal 9y ago
  The greatest competitive threat comes from three guys you've never heard of in a garage. Not from a Harvard Business School guy.
  - nl 9y ago
    To be fair, in this case their biggest threat seems to be running out of money.
btown 9y ago
In fact Vimeo's pricing and core audience (largely-independent semi-pro uploaders of high-quality media content for promotional purposes) is identical to SoundCloud's. And Vimeo recently doubled down on that model, abandoning a massive Netflix-like product line in development [0]. So someone from that culture will be very well suited to promote stability of that business model. What remains to be seen is his degree of financial control, given that Vimeo's parent IAC could presumably spare relatively large amounts of funding for it due to its stake in Match and Tinder. I have high hopes for its stability though. [0] https://www.recode.net/2017/8/2/16086880/vimeo-subscription-video-service-explanation-iac-barry-diller-joey-levin https://www.recode.net/2017/8/2/16086880/vimeo-subscription-...
- pier25 9y ago
  > is identical to SoundCloud's I haven't seen any hard numbers, but from my subjective experience and anecdotal data I'd say Soundcloud is closer to Youtube than Vimeo for a number of reasons. Vimeo isn't focused on the social aspect. It's a platform for pros to share their content in hi quality which is the only reason these pros aren't using Youtube in the first place. Soundcloud doesn't pretend to be a service for pros. Otherwise why stream at 128kpbs and offer such meager and ridiculously priced plans? Also no pro tools for distribution or even selling music like Bandcamp does. Soundcloud is focused on the community and social experience much like Youtube or even IMGUR. This is why I believe it hasn't been able to monetize its efforts. Either Soundcloud starts monetizing with ads or it becomes a real platform for pros.
  - btown 9y ago
    Well, 128kbps sounds just fine on Beats headphones! /s (I feel dirty just for typing the above.) The streaming at 128kbps IMO has always been an anti-piracy measure; given that those previews are inevitably going to be scraped, make them just teasers rather than the real thing, and encourage purchase (or the cancer that is "Repost and Follow this random irrelevant promotion network to download" ... which is another problem SoundCloud needs to solve). It begs the question, though - with such a large engineering staff, why has SoundCloud always linked externally for "Buy" links rather than running its own store? It could capture a lot more of the value chain and lower friction-to-purchase for indie musicians. Perhaps the reason was to not be competitive with its initiatives to get record labels (who likely prefer to drive sales through existing platforms for quixotic reasons) on board for SoundCloud Go. But perhaps with new leadership and recalibration, this could actually happen. RIP Bandcamp though... or maybe they just acquire them!
shostack 9y ago
Is there any guesses as to what said wiped out employees might do in regards to sticking around?
bigbugbag 9y ago
Well I'm surprised too that people would believe that this marks the end of soundcloud, as the end of soundcloud happened when they preventively deleted many DJ sets in anticipation of a future licensing deal with labels circa 2014, when the labels gets in the picture to take their share of the money usually marks the end of the website. The deal failed, in turn failing the exit option to be bought out for a hefty sum. Then the soundcloud purge happened in 2015, then as expected soundcloud was losing millions and faced financial issues. Then the agony continued and still continues, as if it didn't know that soundcloud is already dead. Maybe it will be bought by AOL or yahoo to prolong its agony further. https://www.theverge.com/2014/1/24/5342300/soundcloud-pursuing-licensing-deals-with-record-labels-60-million-funding https://www.theverge.com/2014/1/24/5342300/soundcloud-pursui... http://recode.net/2014/01/24/soundcloud-has-a-new-pile-of-cash-and-wants-to-cut-deals-with-big-music/ http://recode.net/2014/01/24/soundcloud-has-a-new-pile-of-ca... https://torrentfreak.com/record-labels-can-remove-soundcoud-tracks-without-oversight-140703/ https://torrentfreak.com/record-labels-can-remove-soundcoud-... https://thump.vice.com/en_au/article/4x8dqm/the-great-soundcloud-purge-of-2015-has-begun https://thump.vice.com/en_au/article/4x8dqm/the-great-soundc... http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2014/06/end-soundcloud-djs/ http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2014/06/end-soundcloud-djs/
- erdle 9y ago
  > Maybe it will be bought by AOL or yahoo to prolong its agony further. you mean ... Oath
deleted 9y ago
[deleted]

seizethecheese 9y ago

> The new CEO is a Harvard Business School grad Yeah, they're toast.

WisNorCan 9y ago
That is just a bias that I recommend you try to get over. It will help you better assess people and situations. We can debate the long list of HBS graduates that have been amazing operators in tech companies. Every CS grad isn't a great CEO & every HBS grad isn't a terrible CEO. I wish the world was that simple.
- exogeny 9y ago
  I could counter that you need to get over your own bias, which is the implication that a CEO is going to be successful or is suitable for the role simply because he went to Harvard.
  - gist 9y ago
    I chuckled at that one as well. [1] You'd be surprised at the number of graduates doing simply ordinary or mediocre things. Not that there is anything wrong with that - not my point. Just that the halo is often the best thing that someone is left with years after graduating. Now if someone were to say that a Harvard Business School grad came back home to try and help their small family business I might think the statement is more appropriate. But at the level where you get a job like this not as much so. [1] And I went to one of those 'good schools' (Not that one but in the same category let's say).
    - felipemnoa 9y ago
      >>Just that the halo is often the best thing that someone is left with years after graduating. I do not exactly get what you are trying to say here. I'm not being snarky but rather genuinely curious. Could you explain?
      - gist 9y ago
        The halo 'the branding' of the school is very often more powerful than what you actually learn there. Maybe similar to getting an academy award is better than whatever money you might make from getting an academy award (or a nomination). The branding and the halo of that degree opens up doors and generally tends to lead to positive acceptance in a wide variety of situations.
  - WisNorCan 9y ago
    I didn't claim that. Please re-read my comments and point out where I claimed that. I said "every HBS grad isn't a terrible CEO". It does not imply "every Harvard grad is a great CEO". On SC specifically, I do believe that a company that has had issues with financial management and business model will benefit from someone with business training and experience operating a media business with similar characteristics. Kerry seems like a solid hire for the role. He may still fail.
    - hobofan 9y ago
- 77pt77 9y ago
  >> Yeah, they're toast. > That is just a bias OK. Later: > We can debate the long list of HBS graduates that have been amazing operators in tech companies How is that not survivor bias?
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- bigbugbag 9y ago
  It may be a bias, but it is founded. This guy is here to do business not music or sharing, he lacks the actual experience and understanding that he'd have if he were an artist or music lover, which will eventually achieve to kill soundcloud as it was or could have been.
  - detaro 9y ago
    Because Vimeo is such a corporate money-focused alternative to the artsy YouTube?
  - ralmeida 9y ago
    People don't list "music lover" in their resumes. Nor does the fact that he's a professional CEO means he's tone deaf (pun intended) to the company's vision, or that he will destroy it (due to malice or musical incompetence).
bionicbrian 9y ago
He's also on the board for Fender. :) https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/board.asp?privcapId=1468570 https://www.bloomberg.com/research/stocks/private/board.asp?...
senorjazz 9y ago
I was thinking the same, just what Soundcloud needs..... :-\
ryanwaggoner 9y ago
Why do otherwise intelligent people (I'm assuming) continue with this garbage heuristic? https://www.quora.com/What-successful-tech-startups-have-been-founded-by-Harvard-Business-School-graduates-since-the-mid-90s https://www.quora.com/What-successful-tech-startups-have-bee...
erikvoltal 9y ago
The greatest competitive threat comes from three guys you've never heard of in a garage. Not from a Harvard Business School guy.
- nl 9y ago
  To be fair, in this case their biggest threat seems to be running out of money.

btown 9y ago

In fact Vimeo's pricing and core audience (largely-independent semi-pro uploaders of high-quality media content for promotional purposes) is identical to SoundCloud's. And Vimeo recently doubled down on that model, abandoning a massive Netflix-like product line in development [0]. So someone from that culture will be very well suited to promote stability of that business model. What remains to be seen is his degree of financial control, given that Vimeo's parent IAC could presumably spare relatively large amounts of funding for it due to its stake in Match and Tinder. I have high hopes for its stability though. [0] https://www.recode.net/2017/8/2/16086880/vimeo-subscription-video-service-explanation-iac-barry-diller-joey-levin https://www.recode.net/2017/8/2/16086880/vimeo-subscription-...

pier25 9y ago
> is identical to SoundCloud's I haven't seen any hard numbers, but from my subjective experience and anecdotal data I'd say Soundcloud is closer to Youtube than Vimeo for a number of reasons. Vimeo isn't focused on the social aspect. It's a platform for pros to share their content in hi quality which is the only reason these pros aren't using Youtube in the first place. Soundcloud doesn't pretend to be a service for pros. Otherwise why stream at 128kpbs and offer such meager and ridiculously priced plans? Also no pro tools for distribution or even selling music like Bandcamp does. Soundcloud is focused on the community and social experience much like Youtube or even IMGUR. This is why I believe it hasn't been able to monetize its efforts. Either Soundcloud starts monetizing with ads or it becomes a real platform for pros.
- btown 9y ago
  Well, 128kbps sounds just fine on Beats headphones! /s (I feel dirty just for typing the above.) The streaming at 128kbps IMO has always been an anti-piracy measure; given that those previews are inevitably going to be scraped, make them just teasers rather than the real thing, and encourage purchase (or the cancer that is "Repost and Follow this random irrelevant promotion network to download" ... which is another problem SoundCloud needs to solve). It begs the question, though - with such a large engineering staff, why has SoundCloud always linked externally for "Buy" links rather than running its own store? It could capture a lot more of the value chain and lower friction-to-purchase for indie musicians. Perhaps the reason was to not be competitive with its initiatives to get record labels (who likely prefer to drive sales through existing platforms for quixotic reasons) on board for SoundCloud Go. But perhaps with new leadership and recalibration, this could actually happen. RIP Bandcamp though... or maybe they just acquire them!

shostack 9y ago

Is there any guesses as to what said wiped out employees might do in regards to sticking around?

bigbugbag 9y ago

Well I'm surprised too that people would believe that this marks the end of soundcloud, as the end of soundcloud happened when they preventively deleted many DJ sets in anticipation of a future licensing deal with labels circa 2014, when the labels gets in the picture to take their share of the money usually marks the end of the website. The deal failed, in turn failing the exit option to be bought out for a hefty sum. Then the soundcloud purge happened in 2015, then as expected soundcloud was losing millions and faced financial issues. Then the agony continued and still continues, as if it didn't know that soundcloud is already dead. Maybe it will be bought by AOL or yahoo to prolong its agony further. https://www.theverge.com/2014/1/24/5342300/soundcloud-pursuing-licensing-deals-with-record-labels-60-million-funding https://www.theverge.com/2014/1/24/5342300/soundcloud-pursui... http://recode.net/2014/01/24/soundcloud-has-a-new-pile-of-cash-and-wants-to-cut-deals-with-big-music/ http://recode.net/2014/01/24/soundcloud-has-a-new-pile-of-ca... https://torrentfreak.com/record-labels-can-remove-soundcoud-tracks-without-oversight-140703/ https://torrentfreak.com/record-labels-can-remove-soundcoud-... https://thump.vice.com/en_au/article/4x8dqm/the-great-soundcloud-purge-of-2015-has-begun https://thump.vice.com/en_au/article/4x8dqm/the-great-soundc... http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2014/06/end-soundcloud-djs/ http://www.digitaldjtips.com/2014/06/end-soundcloud-djs/

erdle 9y ago
> Maybe it will be bought by AOL or yahoo to prolong its agony further. you mean ... Oath

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]