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> ...the problem is the FUD he's spreading... He seems earnest to me. If he's earnestly voicing ideas that result in fear, uncertainty, or doubt, is it his fau

> ...the problem is the FUD he's spreading... He seems earnest to me. If he's earnestly voicing ideas that result in fear, uncertainty, or doubt, is it his fault? What is the appropriate way to broach the subject publicly? Or are certain thoughts inherently unspeakable? If Damore bears significant blame, what is an appropriate response for a boss to have to that situation? Why is Damore the only person in trouble if controversial discussions themselves are against the rules?

dahart 9y ago
I believe he's earnest, that makes his being wrong all the worse, he doesn't know he's wrong and he's not trying to be wrong. It's more convincing, and thus more damaging, that he sounds earnest. I don't think it makes sense to assign blame, I don't care who's fault it is, and I believe he's free to share his thoughts. I hope you're not suggesting that being fired from a company is somehow censorship. What I care about is that his ideas are regressive and unintentionally sexist. He is using specious scientific sounding arguments to say we should turn a blind eye to cultural sexism. By ignoring it, we perpetuate cultural sexism.
- humanrebar 9y ago
  > I hope you're not suggesting that being fired from a company is somehow censorship. It is censorship. Read the first sentence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship The defense of the firing is that the censorship is justified, not that it isn't censorship. > What I care about is that his ideas are regressive and unintentionally sexist. It's not his fault, but he's fired anyway? That doesn't seem fair.
  - dahart 9y ago
    The stated reason for his firing was for breaking the existing written rules of the company. That part was his choice and is his fault. I feel like the goal posts are moving. The question you asked was whether it was his fault if doubt occurred as a reaction to his ideas, not whether he was at fault for getting fired. I guess you're right, it is censorship, so I take it back. I still feel like it applies to government and public speech, more than within companies. It feels like the wrong word when describing the legal consequences that are widely considered acceptable for breaking the rules inside a company. It feels pretty different than public speech suppression, which is, in contrast, widely considered unacceptable.
    - humanrebar 9y ago
      The code of conduct, I understand, banned creating an unwelcoming culture through biased behavior. Saying he's in violation of that rule is begging the question. So I'm not moving the goalposts. They weren't really set in the first place. I'm asking, more or less, if it's fair for a code of conduct (explicit or ad hoc) to make employees responsible for how their words are taken. > It feels pretty different than public speech suppression, which is, in contrast, widely considered unacceptable. It's worse when governments do it because it's hard to change countries if you want your freedom to express yourself. But it's still an undue burden to have to switch jobs or even careers.

dahart 9y ago

I believe he's earnest, that makes his being wrong all the worse, he doesn't know he's wrong and he's not trying to be wrong. It's more convincing, and thus more damaging, that he sounds earnest. I don't think it makes sense to assign blame, I don't care who's fault it is, and I believe he's free to share his thoughts. I hope you're not suggesting that being fired from a company is somehow censorship. What I care about is that his ideas are regressive and unintentionally sexist. He is using specious scientific sounding arguments to say we should turn a blind eye to cultural sexism. By ignoring it, we perpetuate cultural sexism.

humanrebar 9y ago
> I hope you're not suggesting that being fired from a company is somehow censorship. It is censorship. Read the first sentence: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship The defense of the firing is that the censorship is justified, not that it isn't censorship. > What I care about is that his ideas are regressive and unintentionally sexist. It's not his fault, but he's fired anyway? That doesn't seem fair.
- dahart 9y ago
  The stated reason for his firing was for breaking the existing written rules of the company. That part was his choice and is his fault. I feel like the goal posts are moving. The question you asked was whether it was his fault if doubt occurred as a reaction to his ideas, not whether he was at fault for getting fired. I guess you're right, it is censorship, so I take it back. I still feel like it applies to government and public speech, more than within companies. It feels like the wrong word when describing the legal consequences that are widely considered acceptable for breaking the rules inside a company. It feels pretty different than public speech suppression, which is, in contrast, widely considered unacceptable.
  - humanrebar 9y ago
    The code of conduct, I understand, banned creating an unwelcoming culture through biased behavior. Saying he's in violation of that rule is begging the question. So I'm not moving the goalposts. They weren't really set in the first place. I'm asking, more or less, if it's fair for a code of conduct (explicit or ad hoc) to make employees responsible for how their words are taken. > It feels pretty different than public speech suppression, which is, in contrast, widely considered unacceptable. It's worse when governments do it because it's hard to change countries if you want your freedom to express yourself. But it's still an undue burden to have to switch jobs or even careers.