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I've never understood the love for Mint. All it is is Ubuntu with a Gnome 2 style desktop and things already configured for Linux newbies. I installed it long

I've never understood the love for Mint. All it is is Ubuntu with a Gnome 2 style desktop and things already configured for Linux newbies. I installed it long ago and it was way buggier than Ubuntu. Right now on openSUSE Tumbleweed with Gnome Shell, couldn't be happier. And if I were to give a vote for most 'desktop ready' system, I'd go with Fedora (the only thing I dislike about openSUSE is how PackageKit and YAST are always fighting over updates and stuff, they need to just get rid of one, but then again the thing I love about openSUSE is YAST).

leggomylibro 9y ago
Since 17 or so it's seemed extremely stable to me. It also tends to have drivers for just about anything, but that's also true of Ubuntu. It is sort of configured for Linux newbies, but it's also configured to just be A Desktop with as little crud as possible, besides that necessary to maintain its broad compatibility and ease of installation. Its popularity came around the time that Canonical started doing things like inserting a 'shopping lens search' into default installations' desktop UI, pushing insane and bulky window managers, bucking Wayland to make their own X replacement, and generally making people uneasy about their monopoly on 'easy' Linux OSes. So Mint is a solid 'No-Frills Give Me A Linux Now' installation. Sometimes you don't want to spend hours tinkering, okay? The last time I installed Fedora (21 and 22), it was consistently a ghastly, slow and buggy nightmare that approached a stage 3 Gentoo install by the time something functional was up and running. I was floored at how bad it was on such a popular distro, and once installed, it was also a lot of effort to get simple things like yum working properly. It could have just been me, but this was fairly standard hardware; I came away with the impression that it was not even close to an easy or pleasant install experience for a broad range of users, and nothing I'd be interested in using again.
bitL 9y ago
It kept "normal" desktop paradigm when everyone around was submitting to (IMO insane) design experiments everywhere. Then it was the only Linux distro that was handling HiDPI correctly and made it look better than Windows on retina displays.
- willtim 9y ago
  If you mean "normal" as similar to Windows 95, then there was a very good reason to experiment with alternatives: the US patent system.
  - bitL 9y ago
    Maybe. But experimenting sounds different than enforcing something on the end user. BTW, OS/2 had that Win95 taskbar look first.
    - willtim 9y ago
      OS/2 did not have the Start menu. Here is Microsoft's "TaskBar with Start Menu" patent: http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5920316 http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5920316
  - reindeerer 9y ago
    A lot of that experimentation has been like efforts in trying to reconfigure the fundamentals of bicycle. Should pedals be pedals and should they be really at shoulder level, maybe the wheels should be side by side and one bigger than the other, steering wheel or touchscreen instead of handlebars .. Meanwhile, bicycles work.
    - willtim 9y ago
      The inventor of the start menu and taskbar disagrees with you: https://www.windowscentral.com/creator-first-start-menu-thinks-its-little-disappointing-its-still-used-windows-10 https://www.windowscentral.com/creator-first-start-menu-thin...
msla 9y ago
I've been using WindowMaker since before Ubuntu even existed, and I fundamentally cannot understand switching distros because of a default UI. The first thing I do when I install any distro is install a brace of packages, WindowMaker among them, and create a good environment for myself. I could not care less about the intricacies of the default UI because if I'm using it for more than a trivial amount of time, something's probably gone very wrong. To me, it sounds like not buying Ford because the Ford on the lot is red and you like blue, except even less sensible because it sometimes costs money to get "special" colors for cars. I'm very much in the second camp in this blog post: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/sysadmin/TwoEnvironmentsApproach https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/sysadmin/TwoEnviron... I have an environment I drag everywhere I can, and I come to actively dislike systems like Macs where I can't turn them into my system. I always feel like a guest, and not a well-liked one, and I'm never going to be happy as a guest on my own home system.
- tomsthumb 9y ago
  These considerations are made on the basis that some users are not explicitly aware that they are using a window manager, nor do they know what one is or that they could change it or how the could change it. You're right though that it's odd that some users who _do_ know those things will distro hop for that reason.
mmjaa 9y ago
Totally. (Disclaimer: Ubuntu user since, forever..) I see Mint as a well-polished distribution, among a rather - you have to admit - humongous set of competition. Mint is a good newbie Linux. Its good looking, works for most users I've seen actually put it to use, and is unique that way. I'm rather inclined (as a Linux user) too boot Mint every now and then, and have a look.
ericfrederich 9y ago
I like that it's Debian/Ubuntu based so I can follow instructions for almost anything on the internet. For example, the other day I was looking into VPN solutions and ended up going with IPVanish (I may try out a different one next month)... good luck finding OpenSuse instructions. It's just Ubuntu and if you're lucky, there's an RPM for Fedora/CentOS. I like Cinnamon. Going forward with GTK3 but not with Gnome3. Nice easy to use interface.
- Mikeb85 9y ago
  Finding software for openSUSE is easy thanks to OBS [1]. And their Wiki pages have great instructions for setting up just about anything. [1]: https://build.opensuse.org/ https://build.opensuse.org/
teilo 9y ago
The problem I have with Mint is that a dist-upgrade is not possible. You can try it, and break everything in the process. They officially recommend a clean wipe and install. Or at least this was the case a few releases ago.
- solnyshok 9y ago
  I went through last 2 or 3 dist-upgrades (do not remember, since it was pretty mundane and quick too, thanks to ssd) without a hitch
- CrankyBear 9y ago
  That's no longer the case, you can dist-upgrade to 18.2 from 18.1 or 18.0. See: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3306 http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3306 for the how-to.
  - teilo 9y ago
    Good! Let's hope they make this possible for major releases as well.

leggomylibro 9y ago

Since 17 or so it's seemed extremely stable to me. It also tends to have drivers for just about anything, but that's also true of Ubuntu. It is sort of configured for Linux newbies, but it's also configured to just be A Desktop with as little crud as possible, besides that necessary to maintain its broad compatibility and ease of installation. Its popularity came around the time that Canonical started doing things like inserting a 'shopping lens search' into default installations' desktop UI, pushing insane and bulky window managers, bucking Wayland to make their own X replacement, and generally making people uneasy about their monopoly on 'easy' Linux OSes. So Mint is a solid 'No-Frills Give Me A Linux Now' installation. Sometimes you don't want to spend hours tinkering, okay? The last time I installed Fedora (21 and 22), it was consistently a ghastly, slow and buggy nightmare that approached a stage 3 Gentoo install by the time something functional was up and running. I was floored at how bad it was on such a popular distro, and once installed, it was also a lot of effort to get simple things like yum working properly. It could have just been me, but this was fairly standard hardware; I came away with the impression that it was not even close to an easy or pleasant install experience for a broad range of users, and nothing I'd be interested in using again.

bitL 9y ago

It kept "normal" desktop paradigm when everyone around was submitting to (IMO insane) design experiments everywhere. Then it was the only Linux distro that was handling HiDPI correctly and made it look better than Windows on retina displays.

willtim 9y ago
If you mean "normal" as similar to Windows 95, then there was a very good reason to experiment with alternatives: the US patent system.
- bitL 9y ago
  Maybe. But experimenting sounds different than enforcing something on the end user. BTW, OS/2 had that Win95 taskbar look first.
  - willtim 9y ago
    OS/2 did not have the Start menu. Here is Microsoft's "TaskBar with Start Menu" patent: http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5920316 http://www.google.co.uk/patents/US5920316
- reindeerer 9y ago
  A lot of that experimentation has been like efforts in trying to reconfigure the fundamentals of bicycle. Should pedals be pedals and should they be really at shoulder level, maybe the wheels should be side by side and one bigger than the other, steering wheel or touchscreen instead of handlebars .. Meanwhile, bicycles work.
  - willtim 9y ago
    The inventor of the start menu and taskbar disagrees with you: https://www.windowscentral.com/creator-first-start-menu-thinks-its-little-disappointing-its-still-used-windows-10 https://www.windowscentral.com/creator-first-start-menu-thin...

msla 9y ago

I've been using WindowMaker since before Ubuntu even existed, and I fundamentally cannot understand switching distros because of a default UI. The first thing I do when I install any distro is install a brace of packages, WindowMaker among them, and create a good environment for myself. I could not care less about the intricacies of the default UI because if I'm using it for more than a trivial amount of time, something's probably gone very wrong. To me, it sounds like not buying Ford because the Ford on the lot is red and you like blue, except even less sensible because it sometimes costs money to get "special" colors for cars. I'm very much in the second camp in this blog post: https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/sysadmin/TwoEnvironmentsApproach https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/sysadmin/TwoEnviron... I have an environment I drag everywhere I can, and I come to actively dislike systems like Macs where I can't turn them into my system. I always feel like a guest, and not a well-liked one, and I'm never going to be happy as a guest on my own home system.

tomsthumb 9y ago
These considerations are made on the basis that some users are not explicitly aware that they are using a window manager, nor do they know what one is or that they could change it or how the could change it. You're right though that it's odd that some users who _do_ know those things will distro hop for that reason.

mmjaa 9y ago

Totally. (Disclaimer: Ubuntu user since, forever..) I see Mint as a well-polished distribution, among a rather - you have to admit - humongous set of competition. Mint is a good newbie Linux. Its good looking, works for most users I've seen actually put it to use, and is unique that way. I'm rather inclined (as a Linux user) too boot Mint every now and then, and have a look.

ericfrederich 9y ago

I like that it's Debian/Ubuntu based so I can follow instructions for almost anything on the internet. For example, the other day I was looking into VPN solutions and ended up going with IPVanish (I may try out a different one next month)... good luck finding OpenSuse instructions. It's just Ubuntu and if you're lucky, there's an RPM for Fedora/CentOS. I like Cinnamon. Going forward with GTK3 but not with Gnome3. Nice easy to use interface.

Mikeb85 9y ago
Finding software for openSUSE is easy thanks to OBS [1]. And their Wiki pages have great instructions for setting up just about anything. [1]: https://build.opensuse.org/ https://build.opensuse.org/

teilo 9y ago

The problem I have with Mint is that a dist-upgrade is not possible. You can try it, and break everything in the process. They officially recommend a clean wipe and install. Or at least this was the case a few releases ago.

solnyshok 9y ago
I went through last 2 or 3 dist-upgrades (do not remember, since it was pretty mundane and quick too, thanks to ssd) without a hitch
CrankyBear 9y ago
That's no longer the case, you can dist-upgrade to 18.2 from 18.1 or 18.0. See: http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3306 http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3306 for the how-to.
- teilo 9y ago
  Good! Let's hope they make this possible for major releases as well.