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If you're asking about "the alt-right", you'll first have to define it. As far as I know, that's not some duly constituted group - it's an insult used against

If you're asking about "the alt-right", you'll first have to define it. As far as I know, that's not some duly constituted group - it's an insult used against a wide variety of people ("everyone to the right of Bernie Sanders") by their political adversaries. And the intention of the insult is to encourage exactly what happened here - to associate people like James Damore with people like those marching in Charlottesville.

tptacek 9y ago
That's specifically not the question I asked. I wasn't asking about "the alt right". I deliberately removed "the alt right" from the question to avoid a pointless debate about what "the alt right" is. One of the very first things I wrote here said not only that I don't have evidence that Damore is part of "the alt right" ---- one of his enthusiastic supporters did --- but to reject the logic that would assign him to any such group. Conservatives are not neo-Nazis. I'm not a conservative, but I have plenty of conservative friends, and I actually enjoy talking to them about policy more than to my fellow liberals. So, again, I'm just interested in the principles here. Could you check out those two questions I asked upthread and give me a quick take on them? Thanks!
- leereeves 9y ago
  I think we've strayed too far off topic here. Since you've confirmed we're not talking about James Damore or even "the alt-right", I'm pretty sure nothing we're discussing is on-topic anymore.
  - tptacek 9y ago
    Ok, but then I'm going to suggest that it is effectively impossible to compare anyone to a Nazi on the Internet, even if they are actual neo-Nazis. I think that's a weird outcome but I believe that's where we're at.
    - leereeves 9y ago
      I don't know how you came to that conclusion from my statement that such a discussion is off-topic here...
      - tptacek 9y ago
        Well, I guess because it's not off topic? Here's what happened on this thread (all paraphrased): 1. "This firing was so dumb that it's going to drive lots of people into the arms of the alt-right". 2. "That's useful for the left because it allows them to call people Nazis without invoking Godwin's law". 3. "That's not what Godwin's law says, and regardless, the Nazi/alt-right comparison isn't frivolous. And here we are. My stake in this discussion isn't about Damore, who, for the third time, I don't believe is an alt-right figure (much as the alt-right would love to claim him as one). Rather, it's in challenging the trope that some accusations --- racism, Naziism, maybe communism? --- are so outré that they can't be made. That creates a safe space for people to actually be Nazis.
        leereeves 9y ago
        Your points 1 and 3 are about the alt-right...but you just said you weren't talking about the alt-right. How is Charlottesville relevant again?
        tptacek 9y ago
        Because I'm leaving open --- or, really, stipulating --- the argument that "the alt right" doesn't have a clear enough definition to make those comparisons. I'm content to make comparisons with more specific subgroups. What I see here is me going out of my way to accommodate your concerns about this discussion, and you trying to use those concessions as ammunition. I understand why that happens (it's a message board), but I'm not trying to score points off you.
        leereeves 9y ago
        I feel like you're trying to drag me down exactly the road I warned about. This page is about James Damore, so why are we spending so much time talking about white supremacists and Nazis? Unless you can directly justify the connection, I'm going to continue pointing out that making such irrelevant and unjustified associations is a common smear tactic.

tptacek 9y ago

That's specifically not the question I asked. I wasn't asking about "the alt right". I deliberately removed "the alt right" from the question to avoid a pointless debate about what "the alt right" is. One of the very first things I wrote here said not only that I don't have evidence that Damore is part of "the alt right" ---- one of his enthusiastic supporters did --- but to reject the logic that would assign him to any such group. Conservatives are not neo-Nazis. I'm not a conservative, but I have plenty of conservative friends, and I actually enjoy talking to them about policy more than to my fellow liberals. So, again, I'm just interested in the principles here. Could you check out those two questions I asked upthread and give me a quick take on them? Thanks!

leereeves 9y ago
I think we've strayed too far off topic here. Since you've confirmed we're not talking about James Damore or even "the alt-right", I'm pretty sure nothing we're discussing is on-topic anymore.
- tptacek 9y ago
  Ok, but then I'm going to suggest that it is effectively impossible to compare anyone to a Nazi on the Internet, even if they are actual neo-Nazis. I think that's a weird outcome but I believe that's where we're at.
  - leereeves 9y ago
    I don't know how you came to that conclusion from my statement that such a discussion is off-topic here...
    - tptacek 9y ago
      Well, I guess because it's not off topic? Here's what happened on this thread (all paraphrased): 1. "This firing was so dumb that it's going to drive lots of people into the arms of the alt-right". 2. "That's useful for the left because it allows them to call people Nazis without invoking Godwin's law". 3. "That's not what Godwin's law says, and regardless, the Nazi/alt-right comparison isn't frivolous. And here we are. My stake in this discussion isn't about Damore, who, for the third time, I don't believe is an alt-right figure (much as the alt-right would love to claim him as one). Rather, it's in challenging the trope that some accusations --- racism, Naziism, maybe communism? --- are so outré that they can't be made. That creates a safe space for people to actually be Nazis.
      - leereeves 9y ago
        Your points 1 and 3 are about the alt-right...but you just said you weren't talking about the alt-right. How is Charlottesville relevant again?
        tptacek 9y ago
        Because I'm leaving open --- or, really, stipulating --- the argument that "the alt right" doesn't have a clear enough definition to make those comparisons. I'm content to make comparisons with more specific subgroups. What I see here is me going out of my way to accommodate your concerns about this discussion, and you trying to use those concessions as ammunition. I understand why that happens (it's a message board), but I'm not trying to score points off you.
        leereeves 9y ago
        I feel like you're trying to drag me down exactly the road I warned about. This page is about James Damore, so why are we spending so much time talking about white supremacists and Nazis? Unless you can directly justify the connection, I'm going to continue pointing out that making such irrelevant and unjustified associations is a common smear tactic.