4 ms·

He didn't circulate one. He sent it to a mailing list which purported to be a safe place for open, honest sharing of opinions regarding diversity and hiring.

ebola1717 9y ago
There are no safe spaces in the real world
- WalterSear 9y ago
  If you are informed that you are safe to openly express your opinion, you should have a reasonable expectation that you do.
ghaff 9y ago
Anyone who is willing to bet their job on a controversial posting about company policy to a broad company mailing list staying internal either doesn't mind being fired or is an idiot.
- WalterSear 9y ago
  No question about that. But he's being internet lynched for 'circulating a manifesto'.
- serf 9y ago
  >Anyone who is willing to bet their job on a controversial posting That's part of the problem. Lots of people associate Google with research and discourse akin to a college campus without realizing that, unlike a college campus, they and their free discourse are not protected in any meaningful way. "Let's be open and transparent and have an open and transparent culture... but don't say things that might hurt our shareholders." Google is beginning to remind me a bit too much of the 'Bright & Shinys" from the movie 'Bubble Boy'[0]. Happy go lucky do-gooder cult that holds that image until you cross them. Things get darker after that point. That initial positive image is all that matters. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIYRfNjHSzA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIYRfNjHSzA
  - ghaff 9y ago
    Unfortunately college campuses don't protect free discourse for certain stripes of political opinion very well these days either. I agree with your broader point though. Different companies are more or less tolerant of free-wheeling discussion that may not reflect an official company position. But, at the end of the day, if you cause embarrassment (especially as a non-exec, non-critical employee) at most companies, you're expendable.
    - ltrcola 9y ago
      I don't think they necessarily can, in the interest of fostering a welcoming and safe environment for students to learn. Example: "Let's not be scared of having an open, honest, and frank discussion of how Jews have caused the decline of the country." Do you see how ridiculous that sounds and why a university could not in good faith legitimize the proponents of that theory? Now I'm not saying all issues are as black and white as that, but it's clear to me that there is a line that needs to be drawn somewhere. Any particular issue probably has differing opinions on whether it crosses the lines. But anything that is abusive towards women, minorities, trans people, etc. as people is dangerous ground and I can't argue with not supporting that.
      - ghaff 9y ago
        By and large, I do think that college students do need to be able to deal with viewpoints that hurt or offend them. That doesn't include signs on their dorm doors or people getting in their faces but it does include speakers who they may not like.
        ltrcola 9y ago
        I generally agree, but there is a line. See my comment above for a longer take on that.
      - manigandham 9y ago
        > welcoming and safe environment Words are not going to hurt anyone, actions will. Students (and all people) should absolutely be protected from harmful actions but we cannot stop discourse just because it sounds offensive to someone, no matter the subject.
- peoplewindow 9y ago
  Google always used to make a big song and dance about how scientific and data driven it is. They even wrote about how data driven their hiring processes and HR operations are. This article from 2013 is an example http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/01/google_people_operations_the_secrets_of_the_world_s_most_scientific_human.html http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/01/... “What we try to do is bring the same level of rigor to people decisions that we do to engineering decisions. Our mission is to have all people decisions be informed by data.” Damore's memo may look idiotic to people who work in "normal" workplaces, but it is consistent with Google's previous rhetoric on what sort of company it wants to be: namely, one that isn't normal.

ebola1717 9y ago

There are no safe spaces in the real world

WalterSear 9y ago
If you are informed that you are safe to openly express your opinion, you should have a reasonable expectation that you do.

ghaff 9y ago

Anyone who is willing to bet their job on a controversial posting about company policy to a broad company mailing list staying internal either doesn't mind being fired or is an idiot.

WalterSear 9y ago
No question about that. But he's being internet lynched for 'circulating a manifesto'.
serf 9y ago
>Anyone who is willing to bet their job on a controversial posting That's part of the problem. Lots of people associate Google with research and discourse akin to a college campus without realizing that, unlike a college campus, they and their free discourse are not protected in any meaningful way. "Let's be open and transparent and have an open and transparent culture... but don't say things that might hurt our shareholders." Google is beginning to remind me a bit too much of the 'Bright & Shinys" from the movie 'Bubble Boy'[0]. Happy go lucky do-gooder cult that holds that image until you cross them. Things get darker after that point. That initial positive image is all that matters. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIYRfNjHSzA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIYRfNjHSzA
- ghaff 9y ago
  Unfortunately college campuses don't protect free discourse for certain stripes of political opinion very well these days either. I agree with your broader point though. Different companies are more or less tolerant of free-wheeling discussion that may not reflect an official company position. But, at the end of the day, if you cause embarrassment (especially as a non-exec, non-critical employee) at most companies, you're expendable.
  - ltrcola 9y ago
    I don't think they necessarily can, in the interest of fostering a welcoming and safe environment for students to learn. Example: "Let's not be scared of having an open, honest, and frank discussion of how Jews have caused the decline of the country." Do you see how ridiculous that sounds and why a university could not in good faith legitimize the proponents of that theory? Now I'm not saying all issues are as black and white as that, but it's clear to me that there is a line that needs to be drawn somewhere. Any particular issue probably has differing opinions on whether it crosses the lines. But anything that is abusive towards women, minorities, trans people, etc. as people is dangerous ground and I can't argue with not supporting that.
    - ghaff 9y ago
      By and large, I do think that college students do need to be able to deal with viewpoints that hurt or offend them. That doesn't include signs on their dorm doors or people getting in their faces but it does include speakers who they may not like.
      - ltrcola 9y ago
        I generally agree, but there is a line. See my comment above for a longer take on that.
    - manigandham 9y ago
      > welcoming and safe environment Words are not going to hurt anyone, actions will. Students (and all people) should absolutely be protected from harmful actions but we cannot stop discourse just because it sounds offensive to someone, no matter the subject.
peoplewindow 9y ago
Google always used to make a big song and dance about how scientific and data driven it is. They even wrote about how data driven their hiring processes and HR operations are. This article from 2013 is an example http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/01/google_people_operations_the_secrets_of_the_world_s_most_scientific_human.html http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/technology/2013/01/... “What we try to do is bring the same level of rigor to people decisions that we do to engineering decisions. Our mission is to have all people decisions be informed by data.” Damore's memo may look idiotic to people who work in "normal" workplaces, but it is consistent with Google's previous rhetoric on what sort of company it wants to be: namely, one that isn't normal.