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The elephant in the next room however is the couple of billion people who are pining for a sliver of the middle class (read: high energy) lifestyle we've taken

The elephant in the next room however is the couple of billion people who are pining for a sliver of the middle class (read: high energy) lifestyle we've taken for granted for close to a century. It would be grossly immoral to deny this lifestyle to them (never mind geopolitically impossible). Sure, they get to skip a few steps on the ladder, and start out with LED lights and cheap insulation materials etc, but an energy efficient dish washer is more expensive than a less efficient one, and a well-insulated house is more expensive than one less so. Yes, we should keep demanding better and more efficient solutions, to make sure they get developed, but the only responsible thing to do is to prepare for a future where global energy consumption is going up by quite a bit.

donquichotte 9y ago
And the elephant in the third room is electromobility. 1MWh charges a Tesla Model S with a 100kWh battery 10 times, giving you 5400km of range. If two people in a household are commuting 135km/day each for 20 days/month in a Tesla Model S, electrical energy consumption of the household doubles.
- LeifCarrotson 9y ago
  That elephant is not in the room yet. It's waiting at the Supercharger station a couple hours out on the highway, and won't be here for a quite some time. While that's changing with the Model 3 and the responses of other auto manufacturers, few people own or can afford a Tesla Model S. The elephant that's currently in the room is gasoline-based mobility. 5400 km in a gasoline-powered vehicle at 20 mpg or 14 liters per 100 km is 756 liters or 167.8 gallons of gasoline, and at 33.7 kWh per gallon, that's 5.655 MWh. The commutes multiply the energy consumption by more than a factor of 5. You shouldn't feel good about turning off an LED bulb and using a lamp instead if you also enjoy driving to work in your pickup truck.
- Reason077 9y ago
  "If two people in a household are commuting 135km/day each for 20 days/month in a Tesla Model S, electrical energy consumption of the household doubles." This is a big problem if everybody wants to charge at peak times. But most people charge overnight. Smart chargers and smart grids will ensure that loads get balanced and there isn't a huge spike in demand at 7PM when everyone plugs in as they get home from work. In a future where grids are supplied largely by renewables and nuclear, EVs will benefit the grid by soaking up excess supply at off-peak times. When they're plugged in, they're effectively storage batteries on wheels.
sfifs 9y ago
absolutely this! IMO the energy conservation and carbon cost of electricity philosophy focuses attention on the wrong problem. The right problem to solve is how to generate more energy cheaper and with less harm to climate. When I was growing up, we had neither heating, nor cooling. Summer temperatures would hit 40 deg Celcius. Winter temperatures would hit 1 deg celcius. It was supremely uncomfortable for much of the year and an active distraction against achievement. Now I am well off and lead a comfortable life with climate control at my fingertips should I desire it. I would not willingly go back and definitely not have my child grow up that way.

donquichotte 9y ago

And the elephant in the third room is electromobility. 1MWh charges a Tesla Model S with a 100kWh battery 10 times, giving you 5400km of range. If two people in a household are commuting 135km/day each for 20 days/month in a Tesla Model S, electrical energy consumption of the household doubles.

LeifCarrotson 9y ago
That elephant is not in the room yet. It's waiting at the Supercharger station a couple hours out on the highway, and won't be here for a quite some time. While that's changing with the Model 3 and the responses of other auto manufacturers, few people own or can afford a Tesla Model S. The elephant that's currently in the room is gasoline-based mobility. 5400 km in a gasoline-powered vehicle at 20 mpg or 14 liters per 100 km is 756 liters or 167.8 gallons of gasoline, and at 33.7 kWh per gallon, that's 5.655 MWh. The commutes multiply the energy consumption by more than a factor of 5. You shouldn't feel good about turning off an LED bulb and using a lamp instead if you also enjoy driving to work in your pickup truck.
Reason077 9y ago
"If two people in a household are commuting 135km/day each for 20 days/month in a Tesla Model S, electrical energy consumption of the household doubles." This is a big problem if everybody wants to charge at peak times. But most people charge overnight. Smart chargers and smart grids will ensure that loads get balanced and there isn't a huge spike in demand at 7PM when everyone plugs in as they get home from work. In a future where grids are supplied largely by renewables and nuclear, EVs will benefit the grid by soaking up excess supply at off-peak times. When they're plugged in, they're effectively storage batteries on wheels.

sfifs 9y ago

absolutely this! IMO the energy conservation and carbon cost of electricity philosophy focuses attention on the wrong problem. The right problem to solve is how to generate more energy cheaper and with less harm to climate. When I was growing up, we had neither heating, nor cooling. Summer temperatures would hit 40 deg Celcius. Winter temperatures would hit 1 deg celcius. It was supremely uncomfortable for much of the year and an active distraction against achievement. Now I am well off and lead a comfortable life with climate control at my fingertips should I desire it. I would not willingly go back and definitely not have my child grow up that way.