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> The Germans very nearly accomplished the same for domestic US oil shipments from Texas to East Coast population centres I didn't know about that. It was call

by dom0 9y ago

> The Germans very nearly accomplished the same for domestic US oil shipments from Texas to East Coast population centres I didn't know about that. It was called Operation Paukenschlag. > [January to August] During this period, Axis submarines sank 609 ships totalling 3.1 million tons That's three sunk ships a day. The biggest problem for German subs in that operation was running out of torpedoes. Completely insane.

arethuza 9y ago
I seem to remember that Nicholas Monsarrat, who served on RN corvettes, had particular respect for the crews of oil tankers who had an even lower chance than normal of surviving an attack by a U-boat. Monsarrat's "Three Corvettes" is one of the few books that has moved me to tears (ironically enough while flying over the very same North Atlantic). "The only villain is the sea, the cruel sea, that man has made more cruel..."
- KineticLensman 9y ago
  Agree. Monsarrat wrote a horribly graphic description of the aftermath of a torpedo strike on an oil tanker in "The Cruel Sea" [1]. Not only do the crew have to survive the sinking, they then have to (try to) outswim the burning oil. In the same book Monsarrat also has a very angry dig at the home population who then casually waste petrol and other convoyed products, which he brings to life by describing the reaction of the convoy escort crews when they get home. I re-read the "The Cruel Sea" a few weeks ago (a very old battered copy that I inherited from my dad). It didn't move me to tears, but is still a very moving piece of literature describing a horrendously gruelling theatre of war. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cruel_Sea_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cruel_Sea_(novel)
dredmorbius 9y ago
I've only been aware of the scope of that relatively recently. The scope of ignorance on this and other elements of this story are ... peculiar and fascinating of themselves.
- dom0 9y ago
  By now I've experienced this several times; a story in WW1 or WW2 that's large and seems rather important, yet I've never heard of it before, and few others seem to have as well [1]. N.b. I'm German and we probably have the most thorough history lessons on Nazism and the World Wars, yet both of these conflicts seem to be so vast that there is always another "big thing" one didn't know about yet. (However, for history lessons there is also the consideration that specific military engagements are not all that important, since German history teaching has a strong emphasis on motives and reasons why things happened and how they developed (it is very analytical that way); battles and other engagements and their outcomes are usually discussed as a result of the former, or the outcome of a battle is used as a starting point.). [1] U-Boat war? Sure, that was in the Atlantic, no? — Yes, but not only...
  - dredmorbius 9y ago
    It's not just WWII. Look up "rule of capture" some time, for grins. Realise that that's the basis for pretty much all wealth and production functions.

by dom0 9y ago

arethuza 9y ago

I seem to remember that Nicholas Monsarrat, who served on RN corvettes, had particular respect for the crews of oil tankers who had an even lower chance than normal of surviving an attack by a U-boat. Monsarrat's "Three Corvettes" is one of the few books that has moved me to tears (ironically enough while flying over the very same North Atlantic). "The only villain is the sea, the cruel sea, that man has made more cruel..."

KineticLensman 9y ago
Agree. Monsarrat wrote a horribly graphic description of the aftermath of a torpedo strike on an oil tanker in "The Cruel Sea" [1]. Not only do the crew have to survive the sinking, they then have to (try to) outswim the burning oil. In the same book Monsarrat also has a very angry dig at the home population who then casually waste petrol and other convoyed products, which he brings to life by describing the reaction of the convoy escort crews when they get home. I re-read the "The Cruel Sea" a few weeks ago (a very old battered copy that I inherited from my dad). It didn't move me to tears, but is still a very moving piece of literature describing a horrendously gruelling theatre of war. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cruel_Sea_(novel) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cruel_Sea_(novel)

dredmorbius 9y ago

I've only been aware of the scope of that relatively recently. The scope of ignorance on this and other elements of this story are ... peculiar and fascinating of themselves.

dom0 9y ago
By now I've experienced this several times; a story in WW1 or WW2 that's large and seems rather important, yet I've never heard of it before, and few others seem to have as well [1]. N.b. I'm German and we probably have the most thorough history lessons on Nazism and the World Wars, yet both of these conflicts seem to be so vast that there is always another "big thing" one didn't know about yet. (However, for history lessons there is also the consideration that specific military engagements are not all that important, since German history teaching has a strong emphasis on motives and reasons why things happened and how they developed (it is very analytical that way); battles and other engagements and their outcomes are usually discussed as a result of the former, or the outcome of a battle is used as a starting point.). [1] U-Boat war? Sure, that was in the Atlantic, no? — Yes, but not only...
- dredmorbius 9y ago
  It's not just WWII. Look up "rule of capture" some time, for grins. Realise that that's the basis for pretty much all wealth and production functions.