5 ms·

It seems like these kinds of salaries only really exist for full time employees in the US. As a software architect (engineer team size ~100) in the UK I was onl

It seems like these kinds of salaries only really exist for full time employees in the US. As a software architect (engineer team size ~100) in the UK I was only making £65k. I could have shopped around and got more, much more if I went to London but still nothing like I read about in the US. I ended up leaving full time employment for contracting/consulting.

cjhanks 9y ago
Those type of salaries only really exist in San Francisco bay. The marketplace is actually pretty competitive for such well paying jobs. But keep in mind - $100k SFBay is approximately $65k for most of the rest of the country. The US Dollar holds significantly different value in different parts of the country.
- taway_1212 9y ago
  Not really, since, if you take a mortgage to buy a house in SF/SV, you may have as much discretionary income left as someone in say, Alabama, BUT you're slowly building a $1m+ asset (that you'll be able to sell once the mortgage is paid). So, $100k is only comparable to $65k in most of the rest of the country when you're renting.
  - mamon 9y ago
    Unless we have another housing bubble burst and your 1 million $ asset falls down to 400k
    - taway_1212 9y ago
      Arguably, you're still going to be better off when compared against $200k-$400k house in a "cheap" state.
otto_ortega 9y ago
I completely agree... It is even worse if you live on latin america. The really sad part is when you take into consideration that programming and CS jobs in general are one of the jobs on which you can generate the same value being on-site or at the other end of the world. So in theory there is no reason why you couldn't do the same thing someone in the US is doing and get paid the same amount. Oh well, such is life...
- Consultant32452 9y ago
  >programming and CS jobs in general are one of the jobs on which you can generate the same value being on-site or at the other end of the world. This is one of those things that seems like it should be true in principle, but doesn't seem to be true in practice. I don't believe my employer is generous. I'm certain if they could generate the same value for a significantly lower cost they would.
- chrisco255 9y ago
  Being local and together on the same team discussing the same problems from the same location can have a multiplier effect on the productivity of a project. In particular for complex domain-driven industries. Our job as engineers is to translate domain-specific problems into solutions through code. There's a lot of context there that can be lost in translation across borders.
wst_ 9y ago
I can only assume you earn much more as a contractor. Yet I always try to see through different angles. Are there any drawbacks of being a contractor, in comparison to full time employee?
- retrac98 9y ago
  Yes, much more is accurate. That said, it's not all roses. Drawbacks are: - Lack of job security - Loneliness (always an outsider) - More responsibilities (pension, taxes, vat returns, chasing invoices, legal etc.) It all gets pretty draining - No sick pay - Contract writing/negotiation - You often end up working longer hours to get things done and keep people happy - Getting a mortgage or loan in the UK is generally more difficult if self employed, even if you're making bank. The other thing I'd add is that to be a good contractor/consultant you need to have a well rounded skillset that extends far beyond the technical. The ability to make any sort of impact at a larger business where management are too fond of meetings, marketing are completely change-averse and engineering just want to see you fail has very little to do with your ability to engineer software. You need to get decisions made, win confidence and support and integrate with teams very quickly - it can take you away from doing what you love sometimes. Basically, I'm glad to have the money right now but I'm not sure i'll do this forever. The comfort/security of normal employment is sorely tempting.
  - TamDenholm 9y ago
    I suppose it all depends on your perspective, I've been a contractor for basically 12 years. I run my own business too and contracting just supplements the income. I had a permanent job once for 9 months and i bloody hated it. I get bored of a single place after about 6 months so the constant change of contracting keeps me interested, it also means i pickup new skills and experience quite often. I dont suffer from the feeling of lack of job security, permies can get fired if they're useless or no longer needed just like contractors can. Plus, i've never not been able to get work. I also dont suffer from lonliness, i have a community of techys i'm close with and speak to every day on slack. The taxes and various other things are a pain but i get someone else to do most of that, no sick pay isnt great, but i'm rarely sick and earn enough to offset that. The contract negotiation with recruiters i absolutely loathe. I dont tend to work longer hours than permies, i dont feel the pressure like them to stay longer than is required by my contract. The mortgage thing is something i want to start looking into soon, there are contractor friendly mortgage providers so hopefully wont be an issue. Everything else you say is right though, however, i've absolutely no yearning for a permie job, its just not me, i dont like working for other people, which is why i take on more than just contracting and i have employees too.

cjhanks 9y ago

Those type of salaries only really exist in San Francisco bay. The marketplace is actually pretty competitive for such well paying jobs. But keep in mind - $100k SFBay is approximately $65k for most of the rest of the country. The US Dollar holds significantly different value in different parts of the country.

taway_1212 9y ago
Not really, since, if you take a mortgage to buy a house in SF/SV, you may have as much discretionary income left as someone in say, Alabama, BUT you're slowly building a $1m+ asset (that you'll be able to sell once the mortgage is paid). So, $100k is only comparable to $65k in most of the rest of the country when you're renting.
- mamon 9y ago
  Unless we have another housing bubble burst and your 1 million $ asset falls down to 400k
  - taway_1212 9y ago
    Arguably, you're still going to be better off when compared against $200k-$400k house in a "cheap" state.

otto_ortega 9y ago

I completely agree... It is even worse if you live on latin america. The really sad part is when you take into consideration that programming and CS jobs in general are one of the jobs on which you can generate the same value being on-site or at the other end of the world. So in theory there is no reason why you couldn't do the same thing someone in the US is doing and get paid the same amount. Oh well, such is life...

Consultant32452 9y ago
>programming and CS jobs in general are one of the jobs on which you can generate the same value being on-site or at the other end of the world. This is one of those things that seems like it should be true in principle, but doesn't seem to be true in practice. I don't believe my employer is generous. I'm certain if they could generate the same value for a significantly lower cost they would.
chrisco255 9y ago
Being local and together on the same team discussing the same problems from the same location can have a multiplier effect on the productivity of a project. In particular for complex domain-driven industries. Our job as engineers is to translate domain-specific problems into solutions through code. There's a lot of context there that can be lost in translation across borders.

wst_ 9y ago

I can only assume you earn much more as a contractor. Yet I always try to see through different angles. Are there any drawbacks of being a contractor, in comparison to full time employee?

retrac98 9y ago
Yes, much more is accurate. That said, it's not all roses. Drawbacks are: - Lack of job security - Loneliness (always an outsider) - More responsibilities (pension, taxes, vat returns, chasing invoices, legal etc.) It all gets pretty draining - No sick pay - Contract writing/negotiation - You often end up working longer hours to get things done and keep people happy - Getting a mortgage or loan in the UK is generally more difficult if self employed, even if you're making bank. The other thing I'd add is that to be a good contractor/consultant you need to have a well rounded skillset that extends far beyond the technical. The ability to make any sort of impact at a larger business where management are too fond of meetings, marketing are completely change-averse and engineering just want to see you fail has very little to do with your ability to engineer software. You need to get decisions made, win confidence and support and integrate with teams very quickly - it can take you away from doing what you love sometimes. Basically, I'm glad to have the money right now but I'm not sure i'll do this forever. The comfort/security of normal employment is sorely tempting.
- TamDenholm 9y ago
  I suppose it all depends on your perspective, I've been a contractor for basically 12 years. I run my own business too and contracting just supplements the income. I had a permanent job once for 9 months and i bloody hated it. I get bored of a single place after about 6 months so the constant change of contracting keeps me interested, it also means i pickup new skills and experience quite often. I dont suffer from the feeling of lack of job security, permies can get fired if they're useless or no longer needed just like contractors can. Plus, i've never not been able to get work. I also dont suffer from lonliness, i have a community of techys i'm close with and speak to every day on slack. The taxes and various other things are a pain but i get someone else to do most of that, no sick pay isnt great, but i'm rarely sick and earn enough to offset that. The contract negotiation with recruiters i absolutely loathe. I dont tend to work longer hours than permies, i dont feel the pressure like them to stay longer than is required by my contract. The mortgage thing is something i want to start looking into soon, there are contractor friendly mortgage providers so hopefully wont be an issue. Everything else you say is right though, however, i've absolutely no yearning for a permie job, its just not me, i dont like working for other people, which is why i take on more than just contracting and i have employees too.