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Perhaps its been a long time since you calculated those numbers, or you don't have first hand familiarity with the SF bay area, but your 2x estimate is woefully
by abtinf 9y ago
Perhaps its been a long time since you calculated those numbers, or you don't have first hand familiarity with the SF bay area, but your 2x estimate is woefully under comp. For the general bay area, you need to add another x. And if want to live in SF proper, add still another x.
The SF bay area is such an extreme outlier that none of the cost of living comparison calculators are accurate.
Taxes, housing, childcare, quality of schools, gas prices, and on and on and on pile onto the expense. Even things like traffic tickets add up: a red light ticket in California will cost over $500 before even factoring in higher insurance costs; this is roughly quintuple most of the country. I pay less than $0.08/kWh for electricity; bay area rates are 3-4x that.
I lived in the bay area for a long time before moving to a suburb of Seattle, where I own a nice home and live near excellent schools. I estimate that I would have to make at least 2.5x more to maintain the same standard of living in the bay area (forget about SF).
- acchow 9y agoWhich suburb of Seattle? Your 2.5x figure is exaggerated.
- abtinf 9y agoGig Harbor, which is about as far from Seattle as Sunnyvale is to SF.
- abtinf 9y agoHow much do you think a home like this would list for in the bay area? https://www.redfin.com/WA/Gig-Harbor/2403-20th-Avenue-Ct-NW-98335/home/2808851 https://www.redfin.com/WA/Gig-Harbor/2403-20th-Avenue-Ct-NW-...
- acchow 9y agoThat is >40 miles from Seattle. Here's a comparable home in Vallejo for 10% more (but an extra bedroom) in Vallejo, which is 30 miles from SF or 25 miles from Berkeley https://www.redfin.com/CA/Vallejo/9311-Big-Ben-Ct-94591/home/2630156 https://www.redfin.com/CA/Vallejo/9311-Big-Ben-Ct-94591/home...
- abtinf 9y agoBoth homes have a toll bridge to cross, though I suspect the Tacoma Narrows has a lower toll than any of the options in the bay area. The home you listed: in Vallejo, which is very undesirable; has $2460/year HOA dues; is in a borderline terrible school district; is on 4200 sq ft lot, with most of the windows blocked due to the neighbors being within normal talking voice distance. The home I listed: is in Gig Harbor, which is very desirable; in an excellent school district; is on a third of an acre. In short, the two homes are not at all comparable. For a good comp, you would need to find something in the south bay.
- abtinf 9y agoFor 5% more, you could own 100' of waterfront. https://www.redfin.com/WA/Gig-Harbor/6010-106th-Ave-NW-98335/home/2379321 https://www.redfin.com/WA/Gig-Harbor/6010-106th-Ave-NW-98335...
- kamaal 9y agoStill doesn't matter, Bay Area is bigger than SFO. You could go anywhere. San Ramon, Morgan Hill- Far off places. Yet very expensive. Housing in and around Bay Area is very expensive.
- morgante 9y agoIt's extremely hard to come up with any across the board cost of living comparison. For example, you mentioned a red light ticket. That presupposes you drive a car, which is pretty much required in NC but far from a necessity in the SFBA. Not to mention that while your expenses might increase substantially, there's no reason you have to keep your savings rate consistent. I'd much rather save 30% of $200k/yr than 40% of $80k/yr.
- lewisl9029 9y ago> Not to mention that while your expenses might increase substantially, there's no reason you have to keep your savings rate consistent. I'd much rather save 30% of $200k/yr than 40% of $80k/yr. This is what most of these naive cost-of-living conversions tend to miss, by always assuming a savings rate of 0%. High income earners like software engineers tend to be able to save a very significant percentage of their income, and the stock market grows at the same percentage no matter where you live (within the US), which compounds the difference in net worth growth. This is why I vastly favor high cost-of-living, high salary areas when looking for work. Of course, if you project for yourself a 0% or lower potential savings rate at both locations, then the original naive comparison holds, but then you have bigger problems.
- morgante 9y ago> High income earners like software engineers tend to be able to save a very significant percentage of their income Exactly, especially when you're young. It's very possible to save 50+% of your income as a software engineer in a HCOL. This is especially useful since nothing says you have to retire where you work. Even before then, lots of high-ticket purchases (like vacations) don't scale with your COL.