4 ms·

In case you're interested, this[1] document is of great interest if you wish to understand how these offshore turbines perform empirically. I'll give you a hint

by _FKS_ 9y ago

In case you're interested, this[1] document is of great interest if you wish to understand how these offshore turbines perform empirically. I'll give you a hint: not very good. Any piece of machinery exposed to sea salt doesn't last long. Also maintenance will be a big problem: just think one second the kind of undertaking needed to send a team of technicians to repair only one of these turbines. Let's not talk about replacing any large piece. [1] http://www.ref.org.uk/attachments/article/280/ref.hughes.19.12.12.pdf http://www.ref.org.uk/attachments/article/280/ref.hughes.19.... (see Figure 1, page 13, "Performance degradation due to age using equal weights")

obastani 9y ago
Seems like the foundation that published that study is anti wind and might not be the most reputable source [1]. [1] http://www.ewea.org/blog/2012/12/study-on-turbine-lifespan-just-more-anti-wind-propaganda/ http://www.ewea.org/blog/2012/12/study-on-turbine-lifespan-j...
- _FKS_ 9y ago
  This is also from a pro-wind blog ;)
wonton2 9y ago
Statoil has done offshore drilling since the 70s, the people who work there probably know more than anyone else in the world about designing and operating very large machinery at sea. You can read more on their web pages or search the web for statoil to find examples of what i mean.
- nraynaud 9y ago
  yep, but a wind turbine is churning way less money than an oil rig, you get the chopper only for extreme cases (and it's a pain because of the rotor, sometime they just use the emergency lift to get into the water with a life raft). So now we are talking high sea docking to a moving structure in the North Sea, not going to happen in the winter. So any incident and you lose your entire season, and now you're in a downward spiral. I'm not saying this won't work, I'm saying it's a very complicated situation.
  - Jedd 9y ago
    Out of curiosity, do you genuinely believe the people building and intending to operate these haven't thought of these problems?
    - nraynaud 9y ago
      I think they have thought about it, it doesn't mean they got it right. Those people deliver brand new wind turbines whose rotor are not balanced. They deliver onshore turbine bolted to deficient foundations. They never reach their goals. (Yes I have worked a bit in the industry)
      - cr1895 9y ago
        >They deliver onshore turbine bolted to deficient foundations. They never reach their goals. (Yes I have worked a bit in the industry) As someone who presumably works a bit more than you in the offshore construction industry, I'd love to see you quantify these statements. Especially since you imply them to be industry-wide, commonplace blights.
        nraynaud 9y ago
        Instead of picking a fight (I already know no source or figure would satisfy you), would be constructive and explain how the yaw works on floating systems?
        cr1895 9y ago
        >(I already know no source or figure would satisfy you) Woah there. I'm not picking a fight with you. You make some pretty bold claims like "they deliver insufficient foundations." Tolerances for verticality, foundation position, etc. are contractually obliged and delivered overwhelmingly with success. >would be constructive and explain how the yaw works on floating systems? "Floating systems" is too broadly undefined to give you an answer. Could be that the mooring design resists yaw motion within certain tolerances. Could be that yaw motion of the base is compensated by a rotating nacelle.
cr1895 9y ago
Some thoughts: Yes, the marine environment is harsh. Corrosion is an issue. Maintenance is challenging. But these are not new problems: these are solvable (and solved) engineering challenges. The O&G industry has considerable overlap with offshore wind; foundation design, transportation and installation, etc., all well-understood and in practice for literally decades. I haven't read the report you cited, but it is already 5 years old (much has changed in the past decade). The wind farm performance degredation they speak of in Denmark and the UK might have a lot to do with outdated technology of these older turbines. The first offshore farm in Denmark was built in 1991. Technologies since even 2010 have greatly improved.
woodandsteel 9y ago
Statoil has been operating an 85 meter rotor pilot since 2009, so they have a lot of understanding about how to deal with such potential problems.

by _FKS_ 9y ago

obastani 9y ago

Seems like the foundation that published that study is anti wind and might not be the most reputable source [1]. [1] http://www.ewea.org/blog/2012/12/study-on-turbine-lifespan-just-more-anti-wind-propaganda/ http://www.ewea.org/blog/2012/12/study-on-turbine-lifespan-j...

_FKS_ 9y ago
This is also from a pro-wind blog ;)

wonton2 9y ago

Statoil has done offshore drilling since the 70s, the people who work there probably know more than anyone else in the world about designing and operating very large machinery at sea. You can read more on their web pages or search the web for statoil to find examples of what i mean.

nraynaud 9y ago
yep, but a wind turbine is churning way less money than an oil rig, you get the chopper only for extreme cases (and it's a pain because of the rotor, sometime they just use the emergency lift to get into the water with a life raft). So now we are talking high sea docking to a moving structure in the North Sea, not going to happen in the winter. So any incident and you lose your entire season, and now you're in a downward spiral. I'm not saying this won't work, I'm saying it's a very complicated situation.
- Jedd 9y ago
  Out of curiosity, do you genuinely believe the people building and intending to operate these haven't thought of these problems?
  - nraynaud 9y ago
    I think they have thought about it, it doesn't mean they got it right. Those people deliver brand new wind turbines whose rotor are not balanced. They deliver onshore turbine bolted to deficient foundations. They never reach their goals. (Yes I have worked a bit in the industry)
    - cr1895 9y ago
      >They deliver onshore turbine bolted to deficient foundations. They never reach their goals. (Yes I have worked a bit in the industry) As someone who presumably works a bit more than you in the offshore construction industry, I'd love to see you quantify these statements. Especially since you imply them to be industry-wide, commonplace blights.
      - nraynaud 9y ago
        Instead of picking a fight (I already know no source or figure would satisfy you), would be constructive and explain how the yaw works on floating systems?
        cr1895 9y ago
        >(I already know no source or figure would satisfy you) Woah there. I'm not picking a fight with you. You make some pretty bold claims like "they deliver insufficient foundations." Tolerances for verticality, foundation position, etc. are contractually obliged and delivered overwhelmingly with success. >would be constructive and explain how the yaw works on floating systems? "Floating systems" is too broadly undefined to give you an answer. Could be that the mooring design resists yaw motion within certain tolerances. Could be that yaw motion of the base is compensated by a rotating nacelle.

cr1895 9y ago

Some thoughts: Yes, the marine environment is harsh. Corrosion is an issue. Maintenance is challenging. But these are not new problems: these are solvable (and solved) engineering challenges. The O&G industry has considerable overlap with offshore wind; foundation design, transportation and installation, etc., all well-understood and in practice for literally decades. I haven't read the report you cited, but it is already 5 years old (much has changed in the past decade). The wind farm performance degredation they speak of in Denmark and the UK might have a lot to do with outdated technology of these older turbines. The first offshore farm in Denmark was built in 1991. Technologies since even 2010 have greatly improved.

woodandsteel 9y ago

Statoil has been operating an 85 meter rotor pilot since 2009, so they have a lot of understanding about how to deal with such potential problems.