5 ms·

>“I was talking to a vanilla purveyor recently and he offered me tonka bean paste,” says Raquel. “I was like ‘If I want to use tonka bean, I’ll use tonka bean.’

>“I was talking to a vanilla purveyor recently and he offered me tonka bean paste,” says Raquel. “I was like ‘If I want to use tonka bean, I’ll use tonka bean.’” One of my biggest issues with mislabeling foods. Sell me vanilla at the market price, sell me tonka at the market price, but don't sell my vanilla that is actually tonka at vanilla market prices. Same with scallops and stingray, crab and surimi, calamari and pork, chocolate and flavored vegetable oil.

have_faith 9y ago
>calamari and pork I think that's an urban legend
- drspacemonkey 9y ago
  It is an urban legend. It takes FAR too much effort to mask the flavour to make it a cost-effective substitute. It's like the "McDonald's hamburger is really red meal worm" or "KFC is really genetically engineered boneless chicken monsters" myths.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - nyolfen 9y ago
    This American Life undertook a relatively serious investigation of this question (calamari 'rings' as pork rectum) and they basically came away with "inconclusive": https://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/484/doppelgangers https://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/484/do...
    - drspacemonkey 9y ago
      I can't listen to it right now (I will later, because TAL is great), but did they do a blind taste test? I wish I could remember where I found it, but some curious foodies tried it and the pork rectum had a... let's call it "distinct" flavour that was unpleasant and difficult to mask.
      - greggman 9y ago
        yes they did. they were able to mask it. they also had some less masked but thought it would just be perceived as off squid.
  - olyjohn 9y ago
    There was an NPR story that dug way into this myth. And while they weren't able to track down any actual suppliers of pig bung, they did make their own pig bung Calimari supplied by a local butcher. IIRC, the blind taste testers all preferred the pig bung over the real deal, and they all considered themselves to be Calimari "snobs."
- undersuit 9y ago
  I guess you're right[1]. The thought of the substitution wasn't really stopping me from eating calamari, it's more about how do I not get ripped off by unscrupulous merchants? [1]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/imitation-calamari-sliced-pig-rectum_n_2482063.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/imitation-calamari-...
Mikeb85 9y ago
> scallops and stingray Ray and skate is nothing like scallops. > calamari and pork Again, nothing alike. > chocolate and flavored vegetable oil Chocolate contains more elements than just cocoa butter, so you can't just replace it with vegetable oil. I'm sure there's some chocolate out there that cuts vegetable oil into the cocoa butter, but I've personally not come across it.
- Isamu 9y ago
  > Ray and skate is nothing like scallops. They are frequently substituted, cut out in little circles, and sold as "scallops". It is legal to do so (in the US.) The poster is complaining about mislabeling.
  - p0wn 9y ago
    Frequently where? I believe this is yet another urban legend. The meat looks different.
    - rukuu001 9y ago
      Here in Australia. A lot of people just aren't familiar enough with the real thing to know the difference.
    - pvaldes 9y ago
      And the taste is totally different
  - jpatokal 9y ago
    This was elevated to meme status by a mention in Jaws, but neither the FDA or the National Fisheries Institute are buying it. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-09-29/entertainment/9409290143_1_sea-scallops-pickle-packers-international-vlasic http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-09-29/entertainment/... https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/39179/are-cheap-scallops-made-from-flounders-or-stingrays https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/39179/are-cheap...
  - kbart 9y ago
abawany 9y ago
It sort of makes one stick with whole ingredients. If you want flour that is relatively bug free, grind your own wheat. No packaged goods. Certainly shrinks one's choices but it might be the right thing to do to encourage more transparent suppliers.
- sfeng 9y ago
  Are bugs in flour really that big of a health concern?
  - ryanisnan 9y ago
    It makes it difficult to calculate one's protein intake.
    - deleted 9y ago
      [deleted]
  - abawany 9y ago
    I guess it depends on the person. For example, flour is currently allowed 150 insect filth/fragments per 100 grams [1]. Your reaction will vary to this information but mine is to try to forget this information as soon as possible because I love bread and I am not ready to get a wheat grinder (though I have seen a nice portable one in a Mormon household that I will probably purchase one day). Similarly, in Montreal, it was recently discovered that turkey sausages were mostly chicken and 'pure beef' sausages were made of horse meat [2]. A certain fish that looks like mackerel (edit: served as albacore) and is served as such in some places causes significant gastric discomfort if consumed in a large portion [3]. Food adulteration is a big deal and was much worse when regulation was loose/non-existent. My point was that whole ingredients (such as wheat berries) are a reasonable approach to self empowerment in terms of controlling what you put in your body. It is in my opinion more doable than running one's own farm or some such. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Food_Defect_Action_Levels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Food_Defect_Action_Levels [2]: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/sausage-science-1.4234568 http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/sausage-science-1.4234568 [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar
mmagin 9y ago
This is a big problem in the USA, but much of Europe is far stricter about food labeling.
- fiblye 9y ago
  No joke, a big thing I noticed the first time I went outside America was, "Holy shit, the food is real." No matter where I go, I find cheap food that's simply better quality than anything that's even mid-range in the US. It's especially noticeable with snacks/junk food, where everything in America is some odd artificial flavor that tastes nothing like what it claims to be, while (particularly in Japan) things taste exactly like what they claim to be and often are made from those exact ingredients.
  - mkstowegnv 9y ago
    Agree with the exception of mainland China where processed food is even more race to the bottom than in the US. Recommend that you assume food served on internal flights is inedible and plan accordingly.
    - Cerium 9y ago
      Don't buy heavily processed food in mainland China. The fresh food is amazingly fresh. I'm visiting my family in China right now, and love going to the market every morning. I agree on the airplane food. Take a high speed rail if at all possible!
ehxcaet 9y ago
>calamari and pork What?? Since when do they do that? What parts of pork have a calamari texture? I've literally never heard of that before
- undersuit 9y ago
  The idea is that the final part of the digestive system of pigs and squid tentacles have similar texture and appearance and the flavor can be similar, but so far there are no reported instances of the switch in meat sources happening. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14981406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14981406
rrauenza 9y ago
Fake eggs in China was the one that really astounded me! http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/06/how-to-make-a-rotten-egg/ http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/06/how-to-make-a-rotten-egg... Citing an anonymous source, the paper outlined how the fakes were made: prepare a mould, then mix the right amounts of resin, starch, coagulant and pigments to make egg white. Sodium alginate, extracted from brown algae, gives the egg white the wanted viscosity. Then add the fake egg yolk, a different mix of resin and pigments. Once the proper shape is achieved, an amalgamate of paraffin wax, gypsum powder and calcium carbonate makes for a credible shell.
- azinman2 9y ago
  Ethics aside, I just don’t see how that’s cheaper than a real egg. That’s a lot of process and materials, mostly time consuming to pull off.
  - honestoHeminway 9y ago
    There might be con-artist idealists after all.
anitil 9y ago
And bacon. Around 9 out of 10 products in the bacon section are actually 'Manufactured Meat Product'. I'm in Australia which usually has quite strong consumer protections, but being able to call it bacon is misleading. Only looking at the ingredients list gives it away.

have_faith 9y ago

>calamari and pork I think that's an urban legend

drspacemonkey 9y ago
It is an urban legend. It takes FAR too much effort to mask the flavour to make it a cost-effective substitute. It's like the "McDonald's hamburger is really red meal worm" or "KFC is really genetically engineered boneless chicken monsters" myths.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- nyolfen 9y ago
  This American Life undertook a relatively serious investigation of this question (calamari 'rings' as pork rectum) and they basically came away with "inconclusive": https://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/484/doppelgangers https://m.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/484/do...
  - drspacemonkey 9y ago
    I can't listen to it right now (I will later, because TAL is great), but did they do a blind taste test? I wish I could remember where I found it, but some curious foodies tried it and the pork rectum had a... let's call it "distinct" flavour that was unpleasant and difficult to mask.
    - greggman 9y ago
      yes they did. they were able to mask it. they also had some less masked but thought it would just be perceived as off squid.
- olyjohn 9y ago
  There was an NPR story that dug way into this myth. And while they weren't able to track down any actual suppliers of pig bung, they did make their own pig bung Calimari supplied by a local butcher. IIRC, the blind taste testers all preferred the pig bung over the real deal, and they all considered themselves to be Calimari "snobs."
undersuit 9y ago
I guess you're right[1]. The thought of the substitution wasn't really stopping me from eating calamari, it's more about how do I not get ripped off by unscrupulous merchants? [1]http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/imitation-calamari-sliced-pig-rectum_n_2482063.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/01/16/imitation-calamari-...

Mikeb85 9y ago

> scallops and stingray Ray and skate is nothing like scallops. > calamari and pork Again, nothing alike. > chocolate and flavored vegetable oil Chocolate contains more elements than just cocoa butter, so you can't just replace it with vegetable oil. I'm sure there's some chocolate out there that cuts vegetable oil into the cocoa butter, but I've personally not come across it.

Isamu 9y ago
> Ray and skate is nothing like scallops. They are frequently substituted, cut out in little circles, and sold as "scallops". It is legal to do so (in the US.) The poster is complaining about mislabeling.
- p0wn 9y ago
  Frequently where? I believe this is yet another urban legend. The meat looks different.
  - rukuu001 9y ago
    Here in Australia. A lot of people just aren't familiar enough with the real thing to know the difference.
  - pvaldes 9y ago
    And the taste is totally different
- jpatokal 9y ago
  This was elevated to meme status by a mention in Jaws, but neither the FDA or the National Fisheries Institute are buying it. http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-09-29/entertainment/9409290143_1_sea-scallops-pickle-packers-international-vlasic http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1994-09-29/entertainment/... https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/39179/are-cheap-scallops-made-from-flounders-or-stingrays https://skeptics.stackexchange.com/questions/39179/are-cheap...
- kbart 9y ago

abawany 9y ago

It sort of makes one stick with whole ingredients. If you want flour that is relatively bug free, grind your own wheat. No packaged goods. Certainly shrinks one's choices but it might be the right thing to do to encourage more transparent suppliers.

sfeng 9y ago
Are bugs in flour really that big of a health concern?
- ryanisnan 9y ago
  It makes it difficult to calculate one's protein intake.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
- abawany 9y ago
  I guess it depends on the person. For example, flour is currently allowed 150 insect filth/fragments per 100 grams [1]. Your reaction will vary to this information but mine is to try to forget this information as soon as possible because I love bread and I am not ready to get a wheat grinder (though I have seen a nice portable one in a Mormon household that I will probably purchase one day). Similarly, in Montreal, it was recently discovered that turkey sausages were mostly chicken and 'pure beef' sausages were made of horse meat [2]. A certain fish that looks like mackerel (edit: served as albacore) and is served as such in some places causes significant gastric discomfort if consumed in a large portion [3]. Food adulteration is a big deal and was much worse when regulation was loose/non-existent. My point was that whole ingredients (such as wheat berries) are a reasonable approach to self empowerment in terms of controlling what you put in your body. It is in my opinion more doable than running one's own farm or some such. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Food_Defect_Action_Levels https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Food_Defect_Action_Levels [2]: http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/sausage-science-1.4234568 http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/sausage-science-1.4234568 [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escolar

mmagin 9y ago

This is a big problem in the USA, but much of Europe is far stricter about food labeling.

fiblye 9y ago
No joke, a big thing I noticed the first time I went outside America was, "Holy shit, the food is real." No matter where I go, I find cheap food that's simply better quality than anything that's even mid-range in the US. It's especially noticeable with snacks/junk food, where everything in America is some odd artificial flavor that tastes nothing like what it claims to be, while (particularly in Japan) things taste exactly like what they claim to be and often are made from those exact ingredients.
- mkstowegnv 9y ago
  Agree with the exception of mainland China where processed food is even more race to the bottom than in the US. Recommend that you assume food served on internal flights is inedible and plan accordingly.
  - Cerium 9y ago
    Don't buy heavily processed food in mainland China. The fresh food is amazingly fresh. I'm visiting my family in China right now, and love going to the market every morning. I agree on the airplane food. Take a high speed rail if at all possible!

ehxcaet 9y ago

>calamari and pork What?? Since when do they do that? What parts of pork have a calamari texture? I've literally never heard of that before

undersuit 9y ago
The idea is that the final part of the digestive system of pigs and squid tentacles have similar texture and appearance and the flavor can be similar, but so far there are no reported instances of the switch in meat sources happening. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14981406 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14981406

rrauenza 9y ago

Fake eggs in China was the one that really astounded me! http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/06/how-to-make-a-rotten-egg/ http://newsfeed.time.com/2012/11/06/how-to-make-a-rotten-egg... Citing an anonymous source, the paper outlined how the fakes were made: prepare a mould, then mix the right amounts of resin, starch, coagulant and pigments to make egg white. Sodium alginate, extracted from brown algae, gives the egg white the wanted viscosity. Then add the fake egg yolk, a different mix of resin and pigments. Once the proper shape is achieved, an amalgamate of paraffin wax, gypsum powder and calcium carbonate makes for a credible shell.

azinman2 9y ago
Ethics aside, I just don’t see how that’s cheaper than a real egg. That’s a lot of process and materials, mostly time consuming to pull off.
- honestoHeminway 9y ago
  There might be con-artist idealists after all.

anitil 9y ago

And bacon. Around 9 out of 10 products in the bacon section are actually 'Manufactured Meat Product'. I'm in Australia which usually has quite strong consumer protections, but being able to call it bacon is misleading. Only looking at the ingredients list gives it away.