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Let me present a walmart associate opinion on the person that was fired. Tldr - sometimes really smart people do the dumbest things. Where was his common sens

Let me present a walmart associate opinion on the person that was fired. Tldr - sometimes really smart people do the dumbest things. Where was his common sense? For the average associate i know the overarching Question would be did he not know he could be fired? "I would have loved to go to college. I couldn't afford it. Id love to have a job at Google. He probably makes over one hundred thousand dollars. All those years spent in college to get a good job and to then lose it. Didn't he think saying something bad about your employer can get you fired? I cant go on Facebook and write sh#! about walmart and not expect to get fired or at least reprimanded. I just dont understand how people who are supposed to be so smart can be so dumb." -- I am fortunate to have straddled upper and lower classes in my life. I learn new things working with adults who have never known a family member who attended college. Managers who never flew in a plane. The ground level view of living where you work to get by. The joy of life (imo, more joy with less wealth) I have no outrage personally.

fulfillaneed 9y ago
There is a big difference between going on Facebook to talk shit about your employer and what happened here. The memo writer asked for feedback on his memo and was ignored. He tried again and again to get feedback on his opinion internally until turning to the Google internal 'skeptic' community. The skeptics doesn't quite like what he wrote so they strung him up and made an example of him. He was encouraged to give feedback like this so that the company could react to internal problems and self correct before they became worse. In a collective sense Google is acting like a child by refusing to address this problem and their reaction will alienate employees more than this memo ever could. On a personal rant, I've contracted for Google doing software architecture on a few projects. They do have practices which mildly disgust me. Stuff like flagging people as 'diverse' and making sure the correct number of diverse people are in attendance.
- losteverything 9y ago
  <He was encouraged to give feedback like this so that the company could react to internal problems and self correct before they became worse. I never got that. Ty. But isnt one of the mechanisms to get feedback making input anonymous? Did they ask for authored input? Really? About diversity?
  - yebyen 9y ago
    From what I gathered, yes. Unquestionably! In a message board with the name "pc-considered-harmful" What did they think was going to get posted onto that board, if not this memo?
    - jshevek 9y ago
      In retrospect, it almost seems like they were fishing for people who have 'unsavory opinions' so they can force them to attend diversity training (even the name is Orwellian) and fire them if it doesn't work out.
      - losteverything 9y ago
        Do i have this right? Google: "we want to hear how you think? It's safe." Googler: "you suck." Google: "just kidding. It's not safe. Bye bye." Seems like dirty pool. Is that what occurred?
      - yebyen 9y ago
        I can really feel for people who were offended by this memo. Who were the target of this memo, or the "butt" of it. I'm really sorry that this is where we are at. But the parts of the memo that I read were hard to paint as non-factual if read with a clear head and objective mind. Every one claim I read that pointed at a specific part and said the writing here was putting forward a horrible opinion that nobody should hold, let alone express in company of others; those clauses were cited with sources and facts to show that the author's expression was of fact, or of research that justified policies and not of a personal opinion. It is vitriol and easy to read "wrong," and as I read and re-read the parts that are most quoted, I can understand how people are so offended. But it is text, not violence, and it is through text and honest discourses that progress can be made! "You don't have to apologise for your feelings," I want to tell them, "but put those down for a second so we can get something done alright?" The part I read that in isolation, I will agree wholeheartedly is a terrible sentiment, I was able to step back and read factually instead and see where he was saying, in not so many words, "it's not my idea, this is what the research says, and that fact plus inequality is why we got these also sexist policies, a new kind of the old kind of discrimination." You can't simply punish a man for living in the time he was born, and call it fair; expect that nobody should address the facts on paper, a discriminatory policy, the elephant in the room, or whatever. "Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining." Please note I did not read the whole memo, but that was the gist of it that I got. We will never get to a time where we can talk about how "now we are in perfect equality, and there's no more injustice, though it was not always so;" if we can't freely talk about the ways in which we are not, equals, including honest and full discussion of programs and policies that enforce and perpetuate that inequality. That being said, it seems that lines are being drawn and certain justifications or arguments are on that side of the line. I can fully understand how one on the receiving end of this kind of fire and vitriol might rightly react. I do think he has a case for slander at least against the leadership. He has been smeared, I have no doubt of that from just reading the CEOs statement, but with the caveat that I don't know him personally and he could really be all those things. I'm just going off the document.
- exolymph 9y ago
  > I've contracted for Google doing software architecture on a few projects. They do have practices which mildly disgust me. Stuff like flagging people as 'diverse' and making sure the correct number of diverse people are in attendance. If you're willing to help get this practice out in the open, please contact me. I can protect your identity if you want to be an anonymous source. smann@inc.com https://keybase.io/sonyaellenmann https://keybase.io/sonyaellenmann
hashberry 9y ago
> I just dont understand how people who are supposed to be so smart can be so dumb. Aspergers or something similar. Watch the Jordan Peterson interview. He's not well-spoken and he's not even that passionate. It's a joke the mainstream media is calling his memo a "manifesto" when it was just his attempt to analyze gender and diversity in his own socially awkward way. This really is about outrage culture.
- losteverything 9y ago
  Who is Jordan Peterson and whom did he interview?
  - mikeleeorg 9y ago
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU Here's the video of the interview.
  - jshevek 9y ago
    Jordan Peterson is great. He's a thoughtful, honest person who is delightfully transparent in his efforts to make sense of the universe. He publicly spoke up in support of free speech, and therefore become a target to be intimidated and harassed by - well, the usual suspects. When he refused to back down, he became a minor celebrity among those who value free speech and who are concerned by the recent rise of totalitarian ideology on the left.
    - lanterk 9y ago
      Except he blatantly misconstrued what Bill C-16 was.
    - confounded 9y ago
      Which totalitarian ideology is on the rise, on the left?
- mywittyname 9y ago
  He definitely has that arrogance and entitlement complex that some Really Smart developers tend to have. I kind of got this impression from his email, especially when he postulates that competitiveness and self-reliance are traits of excellent developers while being collaborative and people-oriented are traits that bad developers have. Once I saw him in this video, it became pretty clear that he's one of those entitled developers that you really don't want to be stuck on a team with.
tajen 9y ago
That's underestimating his common sense: - The guy just maximized his chances of being hired at a company that selects for skills, hereby surrounding himself with the most competent. - He was obviously discriminated at Google (otherwise he wouldn't discuss diversity), so Google had already destroyed his career. That's the problem with discrimination: Victims have nothing to lose. - He just became the leader for millions of males who are currently struggling with discrimination.

fulfillaneed 9y ago

There is a big difference between going on Facebook to talk shit about your employer and what happened here. The memo writer asked for feedback on his memo and was ignored. He tried again and again to get feedback on his opinion internally until turning to the Google internal 'skeptic' community. The skeptics doesn't quite like what he wrote so they strung him up and made an example of him. He was encouraged to give feedback like this so that the company could react to internal problems and self correct before they became worse. In a collective sense Google is acting like a child by refusing to address this problem and their reaction will alienate employees more than this memo ever could. On a personal rant, I've contracted for Google doing software architecture on a few projects. They do have practices which mildly disgust me. Stuff like flagging people as 'diverse' and making sure the correct number of diverse people are in attendance.

losteverything 9y ago
<He was encouraged to give feedback like this so that the company could react to internal problems and self correct before they became worse. I never got that. Ty. But isnt one of the mechanisms to get feedback making input anonymous? Did they ask for authored input? Really? About diversity?
- yebyen 9y ago
  From what I gathered, yes. Unquestionably! In a message board with the name "pc-considered-harmful" What did they think was going to get posted onto that board, if not this memo?
  - jshevek 9y ago
    In retrospect, it almost seems like they were fishing for people who have 'unsavory opinions' so they can force them to attend diversity training (even the name is Orwellian) and fire them if it doesn't work out.
    - losteverything 9y ago
      Do i have this right? Google: "we want to hear how you think? It's safe." Googler: "you suck." Google: "just kidding. It's not safe. Bye bye." Seems like dirty pool. Is that what occurred?
    - yebyen 9y ago
      I can really feel for people who were offended by this memo. Who were the target of this memo, or the "butt" of it. I'm really sorry that this is where we are at. But the parts of the memo that I read were hard to paint as non-factual if read with a clear head and objective mind. Every one claim I read that pointed at a specific part and said the writing here was putting forward a horrible opinion that nobody should hold, let alone express in company of others; those clauses were cited with sources and facts to show that the author's expression was of fact, or of research that justified policies and not of a personal opinion. It is vitriol and easy to read "wrong," and as I read and re-read the parts that are most quoted, I can understand how people are so offended. But it is text, not violence, and it is through text and honest discourses that progress can be made! "You don't have to apologise for your feelings," I want to tell them, "but put those down for a second so we can get something done alright?" The part I read that in isolation, I will agree wholeheartedly is a terrible sentiment, I was able to step back and read factually instead and see where he was saying, in not so many words, "it's not my idea, this is what the research says, and that fact plus inequality is why we got these also sexist policies, a new kind of the old kind of discrimination." You can't simply punish a man for living in the time he was born, and call it fair; expect that nobody should address the facts on paper, a discriminatory policy, the elephant in the room, or whatever. "Don't piss on my back and tell me it's raining." Please note I did not read the whole memo, but that was the gist of it that I got. We will never get to a time where we can talk about how "now we are in perfect equality, and there's no more injustice, though it was not always so;" if we can't freely talk about the ways in which we are not, equals, including honest and full discussion of programs and policies that enforce and perpetuate that inequality. That being said, it seems that lines are being drawn and certain justifications or arguments are on that side of the line. I can fully understand how one on the receiving end of this kind of fire and vitriol might rightly react. I do think he has a case for slander at least against the leadership. He has been smeared, I have no doubt of that from just reading the CEOs statement, but with the caveat that I don't know him personally and he could really be all those things. I'm just going off the document.
exolymph 9y ago
> I've contracted for Google doing software architecture on a few projects. They do have practices which mildly disgust me. Stuff like flagging people as 'diverse' and making sure the correct number of diverse people are in attendance. If you're willing to help get this practice out in the open, please contact me. I can protect your identity if you want to be an anonymous source. smann@inc.com https://keybase.io/sonyaellenmann https://keybase.io/sonyaellenmann

hashberry 9y ago

> I just dont understand how people who are supposed to be so smart can be so dumb. Aspergers or something similar. Watch the Jordan Peterson interview. He's not well-spoken and he's not even that passionate. It's a joke the mainstream media is calling his memo a "manifesto" when it was just his attempt to analyze gender and diversity in his own socially awkward way. This really is about outrage culture.

losteverything 9y ago
Who is Jordan Peterson and whom did he interview?
- mikeleeorg 9y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEDuVF7kiPU Here's the video of the interview.
- jshevek 9y ago
  Jordan Peterson is great. He's a thoughtful, honest person who is delightfully transparent in his efforts to make sense of the universe. He publicly spoke up in support of free speech, and therefore become a target to be intimidated and harassed by - well, the usual suspects. When he refused to back down, he became a minor celebrity among those who value free speech and who are concerned by the recent rise of totalitarian ideology on the left.
  - lanterk 9y ago
    Except he blatantly misconstrued what Bill C-16 was.
  - confounded 9y ago
    Which totalitarian ideology is on the rise, on the left?
mywittyname 9y ago
He definitely has that arrogance and entitlement complex that some Really Smart developers tend to have. I kind of got this impression from his email, especially when he postulates that competitiveness and self-reliance are traits of excellent developers while being collaborative and people-oriented are traits that bad developers have. Once I saw him in this video, it became pretty clear that he's one of those entitled developers that you really don't want to be stuck on a team with.

tajen 9y ago

That's underestimating his common sense: - The guy just maximized his chances of being hired at a company that selects for skills, hereby surrounding himself with the most competent. - He was obviously discriminated at Google (otherwise he wouldn't discuss diversity), so Google had already destroyed his career. That's the problem with discrimination: Victims have nothing to lose. - He just became the leader for millions of males who are currently struggling with discrimination.