7 ms·

This was arguably the golden age of German culture. Even if Kant just passed away, you had philosophers such as Hegel in Berlin, Fichte, Schelling living at the

by G2kyd7 9y ago

This was arguably the golden age of German culture. Even if Kant just passed away, you had philosophers such as Hegel in Berlin, Fichte, Schelling living at the same time and the younger Schopenhauer actually meeting with Goethe, although that did not turn out well. At that time, Romanticism was taking off in Germany, after the Weimarer Klassik around Goethe, Schiller and people such as Herder and Wieland was coming to an end. Goethe had a reputation of protecting his status and suppressing other talented artists. It should also be said that Beethoven's ninth uses text from the Ode to Joy, from Schiller, who was a friend of Goethe and one of the few he might have seen as equals. Overall, a giant, intricate network of historical figures.

dkural 9y ago
German culture was going strong until the purges under Fascism began - in philosophy, art, mathematics, physics & other sciences. One of the shocking aspects of the rising of Fascism was that it happened in an intellectually fertile environment with many reasonable people. It is tempting to try to spot a gradual decline in German culture, but that was not the case. It was on the rise until Hitler physically liquidated the intelligentsia.
- kbart 9y ago
  There were too few intelligent people to make a difference and standing out would only mean personal sacrifice without much overall impact. Smart people usually know when it's better to stay silent.. Dangerous parallels can be drawn to today's situation in many leading countries.
- differonzi 9y ago
  It isn't entirely shocking. Intellectually fertile doesn't equal morally or ethically predictable. Well, maybe there are studies which link politics and IQ, but political leanings aren't always great predictors of ethics/morals in action. Edit: And perhaps I'm misconstruing your statement, which seems to have more to do with the decline in German culture after the purges rather than what led to the purges.
- G2kyd7 9y ago
  I wouldn't call it a decline at all, I only highlighted this area because it was particular strong in terms of significance and cultural output. You could argue that a golden age was followed by a silver age until 1933, as you mentioned. Quite a few people argued since then that the rise of fascism was surprising because of the intellectual environment, but that it was a actually a pre-requisite for it to happen that way. If that is accurate or not, is a different matter but one could make a point that the "German question" combined with the propensity for total, systemic philosophical systems in German culture contributed to the uniqueness of what happened during 1933-45.
- davidreiss 9y ago
  > It was on the rise until Hitler physically liquidated the intelligentsia. That's not true. Hitler didn't liquidate the intelligentsia. The first programmable computer ( by konrad zuse ) was created during that time. The first rockets were developed during that time. Hitler didn't wipe out all the nobel prize winners in germany. Germany was still a major intellectual center before, during and AFTER ww2. Germany is still the 3rd largest producer of nobel prize winners with 106. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_lau... Germany didn't go anywhere. Hitler isn't germany. Hitler is just a blip in german history.
  - dgut 9y ago
    Why the downvotes? He is right. The reason Germany, England, and France (Spain didn't catch up because they had no reason to as a negative consequence of their enormous wealth at the time) excelled to such extent that this particular period appears like a very special and wonderful intellectual age, is that the rest of the world was for the most part severely under-developed. Germany didn't become less "wise". Today the contrast is much smaller, but Germany continues to be a scientific powerhouse even if it isn't as evident.
  - herbst 9y ago
    No idea how you are reading this but Germany is on 11 for me. However thanks for linking, didn't know Switzerland is 2 Edit:// just realized you were going by numbers and not by capita
zengid 9y ago
Wasn't Austrian culture (it mentioned that Beethoven lived in Vienna) distinguishable from 'German' culture? I think I read about that in Nassim Taleb's Antifragile when talking about Gödel having to leave during the Nazi occupation and the negative affect Viennese culture incurred from being absorbed into Germany.
- shervinafshar 9y ago
  Hitler was from Upper-Austria. Before moving into politics and moving to Munich, as a wanna-be art student in Vienna he was poor and rejected from academia. My personal opinion from reading about him is that he did not really like the cultural thrivings of Vienna. So after annexation of Austria, he ordered to prepare plans to transfer his Upper-Austrian hometown of Linz into a "cultural capital". See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrermuseum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrermuseum Edit: typo.
dgut 9y ago
Did these guys have any actual impact on society? Besides Hegel's mysticism that later served as a foundation for Marx (and we all know that didn't turn out well), what exactly did we gain from the philosophy of that era? It appears to me that the "greatness" of these men is an unquestionable truth in our society, while scientists of the same era with more evident influence go largely unnoticed.

by G2kyd7 9y ago

dkural 9y ago

German culture was going strong until the purges under Fascism began - in philosophy, art, mathematics, physics & other sciences. One of the shocking aspects of the rising of Fascism was that it happened in an intellectually fertile environment with many reasonable people. It is tempting to try to spot a gradual decline in German culture, but that was not the case. It was on the rise until Hitler physically liquidated the intelligentsia.

kbart 9y ago
There were too few intelligent people to make a difference and standing out would only mean personal sacrifice without much overall impact. Smart people usually know when it's better to stay silent.. Dangerous parallels can be drawn to today's situation in many leading countries.
differonzi 9y ago
It isn't entirely shocking. Intellectually fertile doesn't equal morally or ethically predictable. Well, maybe there are studies which link politics and IQ, but political leanings aren't always great predictors of ethics/morals in action. Edit: And perhaps I'm misconstruing your statement, which seems to have more to do with the decline in German culture after the purges rather than what led to the purges.
G2kyd7 9y ago
I wouldn't call it a decline at all, I only highlighted this area because it was particular strong in terms of significance and cultural output. You could argue that a golden age was followed by a silver age until 1933, as you mentioned. Quite a few people argued since then that the rise of fascism was surprising because of the intellectual environment, but that it was a actually a pre-requisite for it to happen that way. If that is accurate or not, is a different matter but one could make a point that the "German question" combined with the propensity for total, systemic philosophical systems in German culture contributed to the uniqueness of what happened during 1933-45.
davidreiss 9y ago
> It was on the rise until Hitler physically liquidated the intelligentsia. That's not true. Hitler didn't liquidate the intelligentsia. The first programmable computer ( by konrad zuse ) was created during that time. The first rockets were developed during that time. Hitler didn't wipe out all the nobel prize winners in germany. Germany was still a major intellectual center before, during and AFTER ww2. Germany is still the 3rd largest producer of nobel prize winners with 106. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_laureates_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_Nobel_lau... Germany didn't go anywhere. Hitler isn't germany. Hitler is just a blip in german history.
- dgut 9y ago
  Why the downvotes? He is right. The reason Germany, England, and France (Spain didn't catch up because they had no reason to as a negative consequence of their enormous wealth at the time) excelled to such extent that this particular period appears like a very special and wonderful intellectual age, is that the rest of the world was for the most part severely under-developed. Germany didn't become less "wise". Today the contrast is much smaller, but Germany continues to be a scientific powerhouse even if it isn't as evident.
- herbst 9y ago
  No idea how you are reading this but Germany is on 11 for me. However thanks for linking, didn't know Switzerland is 2 Edit:// just realized you were going by numbers and not by capita

zengid 9y ago

Wasn't Austrian culture (it mentioned that Beethoven lived in Vienna) distinguishable from 'German' culture? I think I read about that in Nassim Taleb's Antifragile when talking about Gödel having to leave during the Nazi occupation and the negative affect Viennese culture incurred from being absorbed into Germany.

shervinafshar 9y ago
Hitler was from Upper-Austria. Before moving into politics and moving to Munich, as a wanna-be art student in Vienna he was poor and rejected from academia. My personal opinion from reading about him is that he did not really like the cultural thrivings of Vienna. So after annexation of Austria, he ordered to prepare plans to transfer his Upper-Austrian hometown of Linz into a "cultural capital". See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrermuseum https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F%C3%BChrermuseum Edit: typo.

dgut 9y ago

Did these guys have any actual impact on society? Besides Hegel's mysticism that later served as a foundation for Marx (and we all know that didn't turn out well), what exactly did we gain from the philosophy of that era? It appears to me that the "greatness" of these men is an unquestionable truth in our society, while scientists of the same era with more evident influence go largely unnoticed.