4 ms·

You realize his paper was posted to a list at google called "pc-considered-harmful"?

by nowo 9y ago

iuguy 9y ago
Can you indulge me in a thought experiment. You seem like a reasonable human being but I think your question shows that you may have fallen into a moral trap. Can you explain to me the point I've made that you're arguing for or against with your question. Show me how your question has any impact on that point. If you're taking a side and saying "But did you know this person was literally Hitler" then you may have fallen prey to the manufactured outrage surrounding the issue. Take a step back and ask yourself if it matters if the list was called pc-considered-harmful, woodchipping-kittens or fluffy-bunnies? What is the impact on the list's name on the situation? If you're associating any questioning of the situation with the other side then it's worth spending a moment to see if you might have tied your beliefs to identity. When we tie our beliefs to our identity, we associate questioning of those beliefs with attacks on our identity. This is being exploited at the cost of completely polarizing your view. The next step would be to see how upset you are. If you're very upset or wound up, or maybe you're not but you've commented a zillion times about this elsewhere, why are you doing so about this matter and not other things? What is it about this issue that gets you so riled up and why? Why would you care about some guy you don't know getting fired more than the President's involvement with Russia, or the killing of innocent civilians in the Yemen? What is it about this subject that gets to you in a way other's don't, and why? You might find some serious answers, but probably more questions here: https://medium.com/the-mission/the-enemy-in-our-feeds-e86511488de https://medium.com/the-mission/the-enemy-in-our-feeds-e86511...
- yequalsx 9y ago
  You make excellent points and are, logically speaking, correct. We are emotional creatures and we usually respond emotionally. If the list was called "hitler is my hero" there would be a visceral reaction. The framing, the contextual anchoring of a comment does matter and it should matter since we are social creatures that respond emotionally. I very much agree with the top comment made by Const-me and the overall points you made. Unfortunately fear and anger are what drives political discourse and media feeds that fire.
  - yequalsx 9y ago
    I like the downvote I got. It reinforces the point I made about humans being emotional creatures!
- nowo 9y ago
  > Can you explain to me the point I've made that you're arguing for or against with your question. The idea in your comment is that you can't, or at least are dissuaded, to express certain opinions. Most the things I hear about Google, including the existence of a list talking about the harms of political correctness, that the author felt free to write such a report and many other reported freedoms at work indicate that this isn't the case. That in fact people at Google are more free to express themselves in these types of issues than at other companies. You're the one who seems to be upset. I wrote one line and you jump to conclusions, question my motives, dig into my comment history and even managed to bring up Hitler. I try to argue the facts. Maybe you should question yourself as you question others.
  - marrs 9y ago
    They might not be feeling so free to express themselves since this guy got fired.
jamesrcole 9y ago
There's a lot of questions here - did he create the group? - how long had the group existed before he posted the memo? - was Google as an organisation ok with that group existing? - is there anything wrong with there being discussion surrounding the value of PC viewpoints? - What other sorts of lists exist at Google, and what sorts of viewpoints to they cover?
- avn2109 9y ago
  Any group like that is surely an HR honeypot, either by design or ex post facto.
  - afpx 9y ago
    It's fascinating to me that Google even has places to express opinions. When I was in my 20s and 30s, the workplace was just the place where you did work. There was no room for self-expression. You worked, you got paid, you went home. Seems like it opens the door for trouble - a false sense of individual rights when there are very few.
    - lloydde 9y ago
      Google and the like greatly benefit from creating an environment where work and the workplace can be all consuming.

You realize his paper was posted to a list at google called "pc-considered-harmful"?

by nowo 9y ago

You realize his paper was posted to a list at google called "pc-considered-harmful"?

Can you indulge me in a thought experiment. You seem like a reasonable human being but I think your question shows that you may have fallen into a moral trap. Can you explain to me the point I've made that you're arguing for or against with your question. Show me how your question has any impact on that point. If you're taking a side and saying "But did you know this person was literally Hitler" then you may have fallen prey to the manufactured outrage surrounding the issue. Take a step back and ask yourself if it matters if the list was called pc-considered-harmful, woodchipping-kittens or fluffy-bunnies? What is the impact on the list's name on the situation? If you're associating any questioning of the situation with the other side then it's worth spending a moment to see if you might have tied your beliefs to identity. When we tie our beliefs to our identity, we associate questioning of those beliefs with attacks on our identity. This is being exploited at the cost of completely polarizing your view. The next step would be to see how upset you are. If you're very upset or wound up, or maybe you're not but you've commented a zillion times about this elsewhere, why are you doing so about this matter and not other things? What is it about this issue that gets you so riled up and why? Why would you care about some guy you don't know getting fired more than the President's involvement with Russia, or the killing of innocent civilians in the Yemen? What is it about this subject that gets to you in a way other's don't, and why? You might find some serious answers, but probably more questions here: https://medium.com/the-mission/the-enemy-in-our-feeds-e86511488de https://medium.com/the-mission/the-enemy-in-our-feeds-e86511...

yequalsx 9y ago
You make excellent points and are, logically speaking, correct. We are emotional creatures and we usually respond emotionally. If the list was called "hitler is my hero" there would be a visceral reaction. The framing, the contextual anchoring of a comment does matter and it should matter since we are social creatures that respond emotionally. I very much agree with the top comment made by Const-me and the overall points you made. Unfortunately fear and anger are what drives political discourse and media feeds that fire.
- yequalsx 9y ago
  I like the downvote I got. It reinforces the point I made about humans being emotional creatures!
nowo 9y ago
> Can you explain to me the point I've made that you're arguing for or against with your question. The idea in your comment is that you can't, or at least are dissuaded, to express certain opinions. Most the things I hear about Google, including the existence of a list talking about the harms of political correctness, that the author felt free to write such a report and many other reported freedoms at work indicate that this isn't the case. That in fact people at Google are more free to express themselves in these types of issues than at other companies. You're the one who seems to be upset. I wrote one line and you jump to conclusions, question my motives, dig into my comment history and even managed to bring up Hitler. I try to argue the facts. Maybe you should question yourself as you question others.
- marrs 9y ago
  They might not be feeling so free to express themselves since this guy got fired.

jamesrcole 9y ago

There's a lot of questions here - did he create the group? - how long had the group existed before he posted the memo? - was Google as an organisation ok with that group existing? - is there anything wrong with there being discussion surrounding the value of PC viewpoints? - What other sorts of lists exist at Google, and what sorts of viewpoints to they cover?

avn2109 9y ago
Any group like that is surely an HR honeypot, either by design or ex post facto.
- afpx 9y ago
  It's fascinating to me that Google even has places to express opinions. When I was in my 20s and 30s, the workplace was just the place where you did work. There was no room for self-expression. You worked, you got paid, you went home. Seems like it opens the door for trouble - a false sense of individual rights when there are very few.
  - lloydde 9y ago
    Google and the like greatly benefit from creating an environment where work and the workplace can be all consuming.