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It might be important I clarify that I'm not talking about the right, I'm talking about the far right (re-branded as the "alt-right"). This does not include mo

It might be important I clarify that I'm not talking about the right, I'm talking about the far right (re-branded as the "alt-right"). This does not include most people who vote Republican or consider themselves traditional conservatives. The traditional conservative movement is dying out. Quite literally, it has a demographic problem that it is not sure how to resolve. In it's place, you have the alt-right, which does tend to be more youthful, but which acts as an umbrella for a wide variety of extremist viewpoints, everything from extreme libertarianism to conspiracy theorists to white nationalism to single-issue anti-islamic advocates and a whole host of others. And within that milieu, a large proportion of people are not singularly committed to those hard-right ideologies as much as they define themselves solely in their rejection of liberalism, the left, or social justice. The result is a whole host of confusion. The alt-right is constantly infighting about cultural issues such as traditional masculinity or gay rights, to the difference between opposition to illegal immigration (a viewpoint which can claim to be more centrist) or opposing immigration altogether, including legal (which is held by the nationalist wing of the movement). As the voting base disappears, these groups will have to figure out how to grow their movement, make political demands, maintain a presence without burning out, etc. Just like all movements do. But that's exactly where those intense internal divisions come in and wreak havoc.

cm2187 9y ago
Ok, but agreeing with the infamous memo doesn't make someone a far right extremist. The parent comment suggested it will push them to vote for a harder-line movement but there is a big margin between being opposed to affirmative action and white supremacists.
- michaelchisari 9y ago
  I absolutely agree that agreeing with the memo doesn't make someone a far right extremist, and I don't believe I ever stated or insinuated that. That's a bit of a non-sequitur, though. This is the exact point I was referring to: they won't change their position. If anything, their position will be radicalized. For example, from classical liberal to alt-right. This is been a common sort of mantra since Trump won the presidency. Whenever we have a controversial event like this, people make a statement that any actions by those on the left will only further radicalize people in the other direction. I don't think it's true, but most of all, I don't think that other direction really leads anywhere useful. For the reasons I outlined previously.
  - tiogemini 9y ago
    Do you think the author will be radicalized? When I try to empathize with Damore the alt-right looks welcoming while liberals look very unwelcoming. I could see myself being drawn towards the group that accepts me (or doesn't attack me). That's the process that I assumed from the radicalization idea. Have I missed the mark?
    - xapata 9y ago
      He was alt-right to begin with.
    - michaelchisari 9y ago
      > the alt-right looks welcoming Superficially at most. When you go to some of the most popular alt-right facebook pages, and you see caricatures of Jews and whole racial groups consistently disparaged and stereotyped, and when you see just how many people posting in them have cross-interests with white supremacist and misogynist movements, you realize that "welcoming" is a very, very narrow term.
  - throwaway234233 9y ago
    Some of the people on here have a hard time understanding how someone can go from democrat to Alt Right. Here is a brief time line of my journey from voting for Obama twice to supporting trump and ultimately becoming radicalized alt right. - Pre-election - unsure whether to vote Hillary or Bernie. Trump never crossed my mind. - The first thing that made me begin to doubt the liberal narrative was the BLM movement. Some of our politicians began legitimizing a movement that seemed based on hypocrisy. I won't go into further detail as to not offend anyone. - The Hillary email scandal. Others have been prosecuted and convicted for far less. No charges brought onto Hillary. The democratic party was now a criminal, corrupted party in my mind. - DNC conspires to suppress Bernie Sanders while propping up Hillary. This further solidifies the idea that the democrats are corrupt, criminal party. My mind is made up to vote Trump. - Videos begin to pop up on the internet of Trump supporters getting chased down and beat up in California. My hatred for the democratic party is solidified. Liberals are now viewed as violent and dangerous. - I thought Trump had no chance to win the election honestly. Liberal Media gets the polling completely wrong, liberal narative begins to shatter. I begin to see MSM as bias. - Post election - Liberals collectively freak out. Now that I voted for Trump and he won, I'm now labeled a nazi, racist, sexist, bigot, xenophobe. This is where I begin to see liberals as emotionaly unhinged. I now view conservatives as rational / logical while liberals seem to base everything off of feelings and emotions. - Post election - Liberal media goes scorch earth with Anti Trump propaganda. I firewall all liberal news sources on my router. Now I'm reading foxnews.com. I discover breitbart and other conservative news sources. I begin watching conservative youtubers such as Ben Shapiro. - Reddit censorship gets out of control. Conservative view points begin to be surpress. Anti Trump memes all over front page while search algos are tuned to suppress conservative view points. I leave reddit searching for an alternative, I discover Voat.co. At this point I consider my self Alt Lite. - Democrats focus on the Russian Collusion propaganda and begin an obstructionist tactic to oppose Trump on everything . I beging to see the democrats as a failed party pushing a desperate conspiracy theory. - Antifa / Liberals begin to silence conservative view points from college campuses. Antifa assaults Trump supporters. The liberals are now a dangerous mob. I beging to fear the mob mentality developing. - Censorship - Instances of conservative view points being suppressed begin to circle around the internet. This further stokes the hatred for liberal ideology. - Google Manifesto - Liberals collectively freak out once again. The manifesto seems like common sense, well written. Google fires the engineer that wrote the manifesto. I delete my gmail, switch to duckduckgo, I block youtube on my firewall. I vow to never again use google services. The liberals have gone scorched earth once again. I begin to watch Richard Spencer and I find my self not objecting to his view points. My radicalization is now completed. I'm fully Alt Right.
sheepmullet 9y ago
I don't think so. The alt-right is not constantly infighting. The left are more likely to devolve into infighting. This google guy was moderate left wing and the hard line social justice response from Google and the media will alienate a lot more of the intellectual left. Hispanics and African Americans often lean socially conservative. Gay men are a lot more fiscally conservative than you might think. None of those groups identify with single white woman. Etc etc.
- ZeroGravitas 9y ago
  "This google guy" was a self-declared conservative, and mentioned cultural marxism, an alt-right touchstone, in the very memo that is being discussed. His first interviews were with alt-right Youtube channels. I agree with your points about lots of minority groups being socially (and/or fiscally) conservative. It's lucky for the left that the white social conservatives have been driving them away consistently for decades.
  - sheepmullet 9y ago
    Certainly a conservative compared to his coworkers. I'd argue he is still left of center. He is just interviewing with the groups who will give him a fair go.
  - TheAceOfHearts 9y ago
    Jordan Peterson is alt-right?
    - ZeroGravitas 9y ago
      I'd never heard of him till yesterday, when I read a comment where he replied to one of his fans who wanted to form a breakaway state so his children could be raised only among their own ethnicity, and his reply was (paraphrasing from memory, but it was a weird enough answer that it kind of stuck) "Strengthen your soul to achieve your political goals". So yeah he's definitely in that general area.

cm2187 9y ago

Ok, but agreeing with the infamous memo doesn't make someone a far right extremist. The parent comment suggested it will push them to vote for a harder-line movement but there is a big margin between being opposed to affirmative action and white supremacists.

michaelchisari 9y ago
I absolutely agree that agreeing with the memo doesn't make someone a far right extremist, and I don't believe I ever stated or insinuated that. That's a bit of a non-sequitur, though. This is the exact point I was referring to: they won't change their position. If anything, their position will be radicalized. For example, from classical liberal to alt-right. This is been a common sort of mantra since Trump won the presidency. Whenever we have a controversial event like this, people make a statement that any actions by those on the left will only further radicalize people in the other direction. I don't think it's true, but most of all, I don't think that other direction really leads anywhere useful. For the reasons I outlined previously.
- tiogemini 9y ago
  Do you think the author will be radicalized? When I try to empathize with Damore the alt-right looks welcoming while liberals look very unwelcoming. I could see myself being drawn towards the group that accepts me (or doesn't attack me). That's the process that I assumed from the radicalization idea. Have I missed the mark?
  - xapata 9y ago
    He was alt-right to begin with.
  - michaelchisari 9y ago
    > the alt-right looks welcoming Superficially at most. When you go to some of the most popular alt-right facebook pages, and you see caricatures of Jews and whole racial groups consistently disparaged and stereotyped, and when you see just how many people posting in them have cross-interests with white supremacist and misogynist movements, you realize that "welcoming" is a very, very narrow term.
- throwaway234233 9y ago
  Some of the people on here have a hard time understanding how someone can go from democrat to Alt Right. Here is a brief time line of my journey from voting for Obama twice to supporting trump and ultimately becoming radicalized alt right. - Pre-election - unsure whether to vote Hillary or Bernie. Trump never crossed my mind. - The first thing that made me begin to doubt the liberal narrative was the BLM movement. Some of our politicians began legitimizing a movement that seemed based on hypocrisy. I won't go into further detail as to not offend anyone. - The Hillary email scandal. Others have been prosecuted and convicted for far less. No charges brought onto Hillary. The democratic party was now a criminal, corrupted party in my mind. - DNC conspires to suppress Bernie Sanders while propping up Hillary. This further solidifies the idea that the democrats are corrupt, criminal party. My mind is made up to vote Trump. - Videos begin to pop up on the internet of Trump supporters getting chased down and beat up in California. My hatred for the democratic party is solidified. Liberals are now viewed as violent and dangerous. - I thought Trump had no chance to win the election honestly. Liberal Media gets the polling completely wrong, liberal narative begins to shatter. I begin to see MSM as bias. - Post election - Liberals collectively freak out. Now that I voted for Trump and he won, I'm now labeled a nazi, racist, sexist, bigot, xenophobe. This is where I begin to see liberals as emotionaly unhinged. I now view conservatives as rational / logical while liberals seem to base everything off of feelings and emotions. - Post election - Liberal media goes scorch earth with Anti Trump propaganda. I firewall all liberal news sources on my router. Now I'm reading foxnews.com. I discover breitbart and other conservative news sources. I begin watching conservative youtubers such as Ben Shapiro. - Reddit censorship gets out of control. Conservative view points begin to be surpress. Anti Trump memes all over front page while search algos are tuned to suppress conservative view points. I leave reddit searching for an alternative, I discover Voat.co. At this point I consider my self Alt Lite. - Democrats focus on the Russian Collusion propaganda and begin an obstructionist tactic to oppose Trump on everything . I beging to see the democrats as a failed party pushing a desperate conspiracy theory. - Antifa / Liberals begin to silence conservative view points from college campuses. Antifa assaults Trump supporters. The liberals are now a dangerous mob. I beging to fear the mob mentality developing. - Censorship - Instances of conservative view points being suppressed begin to circle around the internet. This further stokes the hatred for liberal ideology. - Google Manifesto - Liberals collectively freak out once again. The manifesto seems like common sense, well written. Google fires the engineer that wrote the manifesto. I delete my gmail, switch to duckduckgo, I block youtube on my firewall. I vow to never again use google services. The liberals have gone scorched earth once again. I begin to watch Richard Spencer and I find my self not objecting to his view points. My radicalization is now completed. I'm fully Alt Right.

sheepmullet 9y ago

I don't think so. The alt-right is not constantly infighting. The left are more likely to devolve into infighting. This google guy was moderate left wing and the hard line social justice response from Google and the media will alienate a lot more of the intellectual left. Hispanics and African Americans often lean socially conservative. Gay men are a lot more fiscally conservative than you might think. None of those groups identify with single white woman. Etc etc.

ZeroGravitas 9y ago
"This google guy" was a self-declared conservative, and mentioned cultural marxism, an alt-right touchstone, in the very memo that is being discussed. His first interviews were with alt-right Youtube channels. I agree with your points about lots of minority groups being socially (and/or fiscally) conservative. It's lucky for the left that the white social conservatives have been driving them away consistently for decades.
- sheepmullet 9y ago
  Certainly a conservative compared to his coworkers. I'd argue he is still left of center. He is just interviewing with the groups who will give him a fair go.
- TheAceOfHearts 9y ago
  Jordan Peterson is alt-right?
  - ZeroGravitas 9y ago
    I'd never heard of him till yesterday, when I read a comment where he replied to one of his fans who wanted to form a breakaway state so his children could be raised only among their own ethnicity, and his reply was (paraphrasing from memory, but it was a weird enough answer that it kind of stuck) "Strengthen your soul to achieve your political goals". So yeah he's definitely in that general area.