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Since it's allegedly Google internal poll, you probably won't find more information on it beyond screenshot. After what happened to Damore and calls for his sup

Since it's allegedly Google internal poll, you probably won't find more information on it beyond screenshot. After what happened to Damore and calls for his supporters to be fired as well, most people are probably clamming up now.

michaelchisari 9y ago
I can't say that inspires confidence that the poll is even legitimate. Do we at least have proof that it actually was an internal Google poll and not someone's 15 minutes in photoshop?
- Const-me 9y ago
  No, we don’t have that proof. However, the design matches the defaults of google forms, exact colors and their sequence, too: http://imgur.com/WPC0ogZ http://imgur.com/WPC0ogZ Also the header says "gd-jpeg v1.0", it’s a cross platform open source C library with bindings for all modern programming languages including Go and Python: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GD_Graphics_Library https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GD_Graphics_Library Even if that’s a fake, it’s a good one.
  - michaelchisari 9y ago
    I mean, GD has been around for over 20 years. It's not obscure. It's extremely popular. Most coders have used it at some point. I could whip upa similar graph without breaking a sweat that says whatever I'd like, and it would have all the same hallmarks of this one. I could even do it in PHP using ImageMagick (if I felt masochistic) and fake the file header to say it was created using GD. Or build it in photoshop, and pull it into a binary editor. So I think unless there's someone who can point to greater evidence that this is an internal graph, there's just no reason to believe it is.
    - yorwba 9y ago
      > So I think unless there's someone who can point to greater evidence that this is an internal graph, there's just no reason to believe it is. So I think unless there's someone who can point to the actual internal graph, there's just no reason to believe this is fake. The distribution this poll shows is not so outlandish as to be unbelievable, and importantly it does not lend itself to overwhelmingly support one side over the other. Why would anyone spend time and effort to fake it?
      - michaelchisari 9y ago
        > Why would anyone spend time and effort to fake it? It's a heated argument on the internet. There'd be plenty of incentive to fake a graph in order to bolster one's opinion.
        yorwba 9y ago
        My point is that if you are going to fake a graph to bolster your opinion, you might as well fake one that actually bolsters your opinion, instead of just mildly suggesting that not everyone disagrees with you.
        michaelchisari 9y ago
        I'm really disappointed we're even having this conversation on Hacker News. A graph with no source, no methodology, no context is useless. We're computer programmers, we should know enough about data to recognize this and dismiss it until we have those things.
- zimpenfish 9y ago
  Assuming it was legitimate, 282 self-selected responses from a company with tens of thousands of employees wouldn't pass even the most basic "is this poll statistically valid?" test.
  - TezlaOil 9y ago
    > wouldn't pass even the most basic "is this poll statistically valid?" test It totally would. Statistically, a sample size of 282 out of a population of 60000 is pretty good. If this test was authentic, we would be 95% sure that the true percentage of the population who think that the memo is harmless is between 47% and 60%.
    - zimpenfish 9y ago
      Presumably that would require a population-representative sample of 282 though, not a self-selected (and therefore potentially biased) sample. Otherwise you could run a poll "Who thinks [minority] should leave the USA?", get a high "yes" response, say "THE POPULACE AGREE!" but then discover only racists/whatever have replied because Breitbart/4chan dogpiled the poll - which would make it 100% invalid, no?
- t00l2 9y ago
  You might not get anyone to sign on this because they may feel threatened for even starting this poll, especially after results like this. Links to the original idea of people hiding their thoughts, leading to problems with discussing what is and what is not a fact.

michaelchisari 9y ago

I can't say that inspires confidence that the poll is even legitimate. Do we at least have proof that it actually was an internal Google poll and not someone's 15 minutes in photoshop?

Const-me 9y ago
No, we don’t have that proof. However, the design matches the defaults of google forms, exact colors and their sequence, too: http://imgur.com/WPC0ogZ http://imgur.com/WPC0ogZ Also the header says "gd-jpeg v1.0", it’s a cross platform open source C library with bindings for all modern programming languages including Go and Python: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GD_Graphics_Library https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GD_Graphics_Library Even if that’s a fake, it’s a good one.
- michaelchisari 9y ago
  I mean, GD has been around for over 20 years. It's not obscure. It's extremely popular. Most coders have used it at some point. I could whip upa similar graph without breaking a sweat that says whatever I'd like, and it would have all the same hallmarks of this one. I could even do it in PHP using ImageMagick (if I felt masochistic) and fake the file header to say it was created using GD. Or build it in photoshop, and pull it into a binary editor. So I think unless there's someone who can point to greater evidence that this is an internal graph, there's just no reason to believe it is.
  - yorwba 9y ago
    > So I think unless there's someone who can point to greater evidence that this is an internal graph, there's just no reason to believe it is. So I think unless there's someone who can point to the actual internal graph, there's just no reason to believe this is fake. The distribution this poll shows is not so outlandish as to be unbelievable, and importantly it does not lend itself to overwhelmingly support one side over the other. Why would anyone spend time and effort to fake it?
    - michaelchisari 9y ago
      > Why would anyone spend time and effort to fake it? It's a heated argument on the internet. There'd be plenty of incentive to fake a graph in order to bolster one's opinion.
      - yorwba 9y ago
        My point is that if you are going to fake a graph to bolster your opinion, you might as well fake one that actually bolsters your opinion, instead of just mildly suggesting that not everyone disagrees with you.
        michaelchisari 9y ago
        I'm really disappointed we're even having this conversation on Hacker News. A graph with no source, no methodology, no context is useless. We're computer programmers, we should know enough about data to recognize this and dismiss it until we have those things.
zimpenfish 9y ago
Assuming it was legitimate, 282 self-selected responses from a company with tens of thousands of employees wouldn't pass even the most basic "is this poll statistically valid?" test.
- TezlaOil 9y ago
  > wouldn't pass even the most basic "is this poll statistically valid?" test It totally would. Statistically, a sample size of 282 out of a population of 60000 is pretty good. If this test was authentic, we would be 95% sure that the true percentage of the population who think that the memo is harmless is between 47% and 60%.
  - zimpenfish 9y ago
    Presumably that would require a population-representative sample of 282 though, not a self-selected (and therefore potentially biased) sample. Otherwise you could run a poll "Who thinks [minority] should leave the USA?", get a high "yes" response, say "THE POPULACE AGREE!" but then discover only racists/whatever have replied because Breitbart/4chan dogpiled the poll - which would make it 100% invalid, no?
t00l2 9y ago
You might not get anyone to sign on this because they may feel threatened for even starting this poll, especially after results like this. Links to the original idea of people hiding their thoughts, leading to problems with discussing what is and what is not a fact.