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Feel free to work towards changing "bias" towards the distribution you think is more proper and see if it indeed proves the point of "the higher ranks in scienc
by pacala 9y ago
Feel free to work towards changing "bias" towards the distribution you think is more proper and see if it indeed proves the point of "the higher ranks in science and politics would be dominated by women". You'll need a concrete way to measure and quantify "bias". No, workforce representation is not a measure of "bias". That is the unproven hypothesis and using it is merely circular reasoning.
Meanwhile, consider that "diversity" programs are institutionalized discrimination.
- etchalon 9y agoInstitutional discrimination programs aimed at countering the effects of institutionalized discrimination.
- pacala 9y ago* institutionalized discrimination: Policies that explicitly favor one group over another based on phenotype differences. For example, Jim Crow laws or "diversity" hiring policies. * "institutionalized discrimination": The hypothesis that society is skewed by the vast conspiracy of "bias". For example, for the past 10 years, computer science graduation rates skew under 20% / 80% for female / male graduates [0]. Presumably females are kept down by "bias". [0] http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelors-degrees-conferred-to-women-by-major-1970-2012/ http://www.randalolson.com/2014/06/14/percentage-of-bachelor.... Does anyone have more recent data than 2012? I've remember skimming a link recently...
- mirimir 9y agoWe're talking "institutionalized discrimination" in the sense of the past few millennia.
- PeanutCurry 9y agoThis seems overly broad. many societies aren't even a millennia old and derive from events that would indicate some quantity of disdain for their previous governors. Unless the argument is that people, regardless of culture, are behaviorally the same then there isn't much to gain by simply going by such a large time frame.
- mirimir 9y agoOK, what societies have been fundamentally gender neutral?
- PeanutCurry 9y agoI'm not seeing the relevance of your rhetorical question here. My point was that it's weird to measure institutional discrimination over millennia since most institutions that matter in the modern era aren't that old. So you're either mashing multiple institutions together and ignoring their cultural differences or the premise needs to be refined more.
- mirimir 9y agoWell, "institutional" isn't limited to a particular institution. Here, it's extremely pervasive, reflected in virtually all institutions of virtually all known cultures, going back millennia. Based on archeological evidence, it's possible that gender roles and constraints were weaker maybe 20-30 kyr ago.
- PeanutCurry 9y agoBut that definition isn't particularly helpful unless I'm missing something you're getting at. Sure, a lot of ancient societies had men as hunters and women/meak as gatherers. None of the major world powers are hunter/gatherer societies though. And similar statements could be made about medieval homestead configurations. This is why I was pointing out that most modern institutions aren't a millennia old. Sure, thousands of years ago there were sexist policies, just like there are today. But if those policies were based on ideologies and environments that don't exist anymore then it doesn't seem like that's a particularly useful acknowledgement for correcting inequality as it exists today.
- mirimir 9y agoCultures come and go, but sexism seems to stay the same. It could be biological. I suspect that it's mainly a game theoretical implication of the biology of human sexual reproduction. It's all about whether men want to know which kids are theirs, or not. And if they do, what systems get set up to make that possible. So there are two attractors aka stable states. One is what's typical historically: Men dominate women, manage access of other men to them, and so on. The other is where men don't care about knowing paternity. So women don't need to be controlled so much. Maybe some form of polyandry. Or maybe just less emphasis on family vs larger social group.
- memedtodeath 9y agoHere is a chart of the gender balance of over a hundred different professions. Few of them are near a 50/50 balance. Could you tell me which ones are suffering from institutionalized discrimination? https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-percentage-women-and-men-each-profession/GBX22YsWl0XaeHghwXfE4H/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-perce...
- etchalon 9y agoI have no idea what the cultures of other fields are like. I work in technology, so I can only speak for that.