5 ms·

Or it might mean that certain genders tend to be dissuaded from pursuing certain career paths.

imminentviolet 9y ago
So what? There are some barriers, implicit and explicit, that are perfectly appropriate. Some of them serve a higher purpose, like reinforcing gender archetypes and standards of behavior that are productive in the long run in their own ways. Why should we be so quick to demolish those because a few loud mouths want to destroy them? If exceptional people really have something to offer in areas where they are shunned for other reasons, let them brave the consequences. Tearing down the entire social structure to cater to a minority who thinks too highly of themselves anyway is a poor trade off.
- Johnny555 9y ago
  What would be appropriate about a barrier that discourages men from becoming teachers, or discourages women from STEM fields? Where is the productivity gain in pushing a young girl away from STEM? If exceptional people really have something to offer in areas where they are shunned for other reasons... Many exceptional people won't even discover their talent if they are actively dissuaded from pursuing the education and career they have the aptitude for, all in the name of "reinforcing gender archetypes". Tearing down the entire social structure Tearing down a social structure that's weighted against certain genders in certain career paths sounds exactly like the right solution. Let people choose their path on their own desires and aptitude, don't choose it for them based on some historical standards of behavior.
- rev_bird 9y ago
  >There are some barriers, implicit and explicit, that are perfectly appropriate. Some of them serve a higher purpose, like reinforcing gender archetypes and standards of behavior that are productive in the long run in their own ways. This argument is interesting -- you're not saying discrimination doesn't exist, just that it's... good?
- dang 9y ago
  It's an abuse of HN to use it primarily for political or ideological battle. Since this account has been doing this, and also has broken the HN guidelines by being uncivil, we've banned it.
PeterisP 9y ago
It might, but it does not - that's kind of the whole point, the gender differences appear even in societies/areas where there's opposite social pressure. Preferences matter, preferences differ between gender, and even in a hypothetical ideal world with perfectly equal opportunity and noone being dissuaded from pursuing certain career paths the gender distribution of quite a few professions would be far from 50/50 due to the preferences. For an example more detailed/sourced argument, http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exagger... might be a start.

So what? There are some barriers, implicit and explicit, that are perfectly appropriate. Some of them serve a higher purpose, like reinforcing gender archetypes and standards of behavior that are productive in the long run in their own ways. Why should we be so quick to demolish those because a few loud mouths want to destroy them? If exceptional people really have something to offer in areas where they are shunned for other reasons, let them brave the consequences. Tearing down the entire social structure to cater to a minority who thinks too highly of themselves anyway is a poor trade off.

Johnny555 9y ago
What would be appropriate about a barrier that discourages men from becoming teachers, or discourages women from STEM fields? Where is the productivity gain in pushing a young girl away from STEM? If exceptional people really have something to offer in areas where they are shunned for other reasons... Many exceptional people won't even discover their talent if they are actively dissuaded from pursuing the education and career they have the aptitude for, all in the name of "reinforcing gender archetypes". Tearing down the entire social structure Tearing down a social structure that's weighted against certain genders in certain career paths sounds exactly like the right solution. Let people choose their path on their own desires and aptitude, don't choose it for them based on some historical standards of behavior.
rev_bird 9y ago
>There are some barriers, implicit and explicit, that are perfectly appropriate. Some of them serve a higher purpose, like reinforcing gender archetypes and standards of behavior that are productive in the long run in their own ways. This argument is interesting -- you're not saying discrimination doesn't exist, just that it's... good?
dang 9y ago
It's an abuse of HN to use it primarily for political or ideological battle. Since this account has been doing this, and also has broken the HN guidelines by being uncivil, we've banned it.

PeterisP 9y ago

It might, but it does not - that's kind of the whole point, the gender differences appear even in societies/areas where there's opposite social pressure. Preferences matter, preferences differ between gender, and even in a hypothetical ideal world with perfectly equal opportunity and noone being dissuaded from pursuing certain career paths the gender distribution of quite a few professions would be far from 50/50 due to the preferences. For an example more detailed/sourced argument, http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exagger... might be a start.