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Have you read Adam Grant's piece on linkedin? I think you'd like it. Basically the argument is that biological differences exist but are small or mostly isolate

Have you read Adam Grant's piece on linkedin? I think you'd like it. Basically the argument is that biological differences exist but are small or mostly isolated to a few (mostly physical) domains. And that those domains have little to do with computer science, the reason google has less women than men is mostly a cultural problem. https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/differences-between-men-women-vastly-exaggerated-adam-grant https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/differences-between-men-women...

deleted 9y ago
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jholman 9y ago
It is indeed an interesting piece. And have you read Alexander Scott's piece on how mistaken Grant is about the actual state of science? http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exagger... Basically the argument is that Grant has failed to actually read the science he cites, because it the actual results from that science don't say what Grant say they says, especially as it relates to Damore's memo's worldview. And then you can read Grant's reply to Alexander, and Alexander's reply to Grant. http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/#comment-533527 http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exagger... All pretty interesting. And the outcome of all that, for me, is a strong reinforcement of the Pinker quote that mpweiher quoted: feminism must not be held hostage to the science, because otherwise many scientists will see things that will require them to become non-feminists.
tracker1 9y ago
But is it Google's culture that is the problem? I mean if there are only 1:5 female to male graduates in engineering/cs, then it stands to reason that if Google has more than that ratio, they are probably fine, in terms of their own distribution model. (Not sure what the actual ratios are in either case). I'm more disturbed by the visceral reaction to a memo that was meant to be internal, made enough effort to stay somewhat centrist and isn't really calling out any individual, but mostly calling for a re-evaluation of their processes based on empirical data. Even if his thesis may be in error, or may have said things that bother some.
- threatofrain 9y ago
  If Google has a disproportionate share of females coming through the hiring pipelines, then other companies are only going to be even more lopsided. The problem must be fixed before Google gets into the equation, not at the Google level.
  - dragonwriter 9y ago
    > If Google has a disproportionate share of females coming through the hiring pipelines, then other companies are only going to be even more lopsided. Not if Google attracts women that would not otherwise be applying at other tech firms.

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

jholman 9y ago

It is indeed an interesting piece. And have you read Alexander Scott's piece on how mistaken Grant is about the actual state of science? http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exagger... Basically the argument is that Grant has failed to actually read the science he cites, because it the actual results from that science don't say what Grant say they says, especially as it relates to Damore's memo's worldview. And then you can read Grant's reply to Alexander, and Alexander's reply to Grant. http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exaggerated-differences/#comment-533527 http://slatestarcodex.com/2017/08/07/contra-grant-on-exagger... All pretty interesting. And the outcome of all that, for me, is a strong reinforcement of the Pinker quote that mpweiher quoted: feminism must not be held hostage to the science, because otherwise many scientists will see things that will require them to become non-feminists.

tracker1 9y ago

But is it Google's culture that is the problem? I mean if there are only 1:5 female to male graduates in engineering/cs, then it stands to reason that if Google has more than that ratio, they are probably fine, in terms of their own distribution model. (Not sure what the actual ratios are in either case). I'm more disturbed by the visceral reaction to a memo that was meant to be internal, made enough effort to stay somewhat centrist and isn't really calling out any individual, but mostly calling for a re-evaluation of their processes based on empirical data. Even if his thesis may be in error, or may have said things that bother some.

threatofrain 9y ago
If Google has a disproportionate share of females coming through the hiring pipelines, then other companies are only going to be even more lopsided. The problem must be fixed before Google gets into the equation, not at the Google level.
- dragonwriter 9y ago
  > If Google has a disproportionate share of females coming through the hiring pipelines, then other companies are only going to be even more lopsided. Not if Google attracts women that would not otherwise be applying at other tech firms.