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One group of people it can work a bit better for, in terms of living somewhere you have a real connection rather than living an expat lifestyle, are people who
by mjn 9y ago
One group of people it can work a bit better for, in terms of living somewhere you have a real connection rather than living an expat lifestyle, are people who are themselves from somewhere with a lower cost of living, but can't find good jobs there, so moved elsewhere. It lets you sort of halfway move back to your home country while retaining some of the income advantages of the wealthier country. I have a Greek friend who does something like that, running a small business that is mainly economically based in northern Europe, but because he has a flexible working environment, he's able to spend a significant portion of the year in Greece, which he left in the first place only because there were no jobs, not because he wanted to leave.
In some formal sense the mechanics are very similar to an American running a lifestyle business from a beach in Crete, but culturally it's different from the "digital nomad" lifestyle.
- saimiam 9y agoThis sounds fascinating to me. I'm looking at doing the same thing - launch a product for global audience while relocating back to India. Any idea how long your friend took to gain traction? What do they do to find a community of fellow techies/dropshippers/SEO mavens/whatever in Greece? Do they ever talk about moving back to north Europe?
- mjn 9y agoI don't keep in that close contact, but as I understand it he hasn't precisely moved back to Greece. The business is incorporated in northern Europe and he has his legal residence there. It's just that since there's no office to go into there's no real need to be physically present most of the time, so nothing stopping him from doing much of the work remotely from Greece. It probably does help that Europe is fairly small and flying back and forth is not too difficult.
- narrator 9y agoI have a friend from the U.S who lives in Argentina and works online doing tech stuff. He lives with his Argentinian girlfriend and makes enough in two months to make TWO years living expenses! He does speak fluent Spanish though. He went to the doctor and spent 45 minutes with her and it cost him $12. This is not digital nomad, but really immigration with the intent of not returning home, but it does represent another option.
- artur_makly 9y agoyep been doing Arg for 10yrs now. 1/3 the cost same time zone as NYC clients. great-lifestyle down here.
- joshvm 9y agoHow does this work if you're not a citizen of that country? In this case your friend is an EU citizen, so that unlocks lots of options (like in this case work from Greece). I'm especially curious as Brexit is promising to ruin a lot of opportunities that would otherwise be available to my fellow Brits and I. In the case of the American running a business from Crete, how does that work in terms of taxation and residency? People seem to get away with it in the far East, but (mostly) you can't just stay in a country indefinitely, mooch off the cheap system and pocket the difference.
- alchemism 9y agoI've studied the rules for Greece specifically. Currently for non-EU visitors, ~$24,000 in a bank account will get you a 'self-sufficiency' residence permit for 1 year. There are other permits available for buying property, marriage, and such, but thats probably not what a nomad would do. That said, there it is not difficult to overstay the standard 90-day EU visa and simply pay the fine when leaving / on the next entry. As far as taxes go, I would wager that any American in Greece is only paying taxes in the States. The Greek tax system is notoriously insane.
- pault 9y ago> That said, there it is not difficult to overstay the standard 90-day EU visa and simply pay the fine when leaving / on the next entry. Don't do this. Customs officials really don't like it when you show a flagrant disregard for their laws. Also, you can create permanent problems for yourself if you ever decided to return.
- alchemism 9y agoI certainly did not imagine doing this on my own, nor have I tested the limits first-hand. The self-sufficiency permit isn't that difficult to obtain for a committed nomad, as I see it. But the chatter in the Greek expat forums specifically describe the purely financial nature of the Schengen zone penalty: pay-to-play. The punishment comes in the form of the fine amount, which in a range is left to the discretion of the customs agent. Evidence of "flagrant disregard" or an otherwise spoiled attitude might get the maximum fine, whereas an honest mistake (or an engaging attitude) might cost only a few hundred euros.
- JoshMnem 9y agoGreat spot. I spent over a year (over many trips) working remotely from Greece, including Crete.