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> Use variables. Not this. You can't if you use react. Besides, JS is the only language I know where half of it is recommended to not be used. > If you inser

> Use variables. Not this. You can't if you use react. Besides, JS is the only language I know where half of it is recommended to not be used. > If you insert the semicolons yourself and don't depend on the auto insertions, you don't have to worry about the edge cases where the lack of a semicolon would introduce a bug. But that's not the point. The point is my students will forget the semicolon in some code that is not properly checked, and it will work. Most of the time. Until it doesn't. > Use === if you want to be explicit. No shit sherlock ? But again, half of the language is forbidden. And you know somebody is going to write != instead of !== one day, tired. > The commutativity is the same like in classic Maths I think, it's just he floating point errors that mess things up. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. $ node > [] + {} '[object Object]' > {} + [] 0 > We have .toString, parseInt, atob, btoa, etc. Come on, you never used Java, Perl, Ruby, Python? Any language with decent string formatting ? That doesn't need a leftpad dependancy ? That can format date without importing 34ko of moment.js ? > The rest can be implemented in user-land: var md5 = require("md5") And then you get the current 3Mo pages we all hate. Are you even serious with your arguments or is it trolling ? > I think it's fine. If you use a named list {} you can "delete foo[bar]" A mapping is not a list. It doesn't perform the same. You can't push and unshift. You can map on it without Object.stuff. Length is a costly operation. Concat without spread is a pain. And how do you get the "next 3 elements after the 2nd" ?

simplicitea 9y ago
> And how do you get the "next 3 elements after the 2nd" ? .splice(2, 3) (am I missing something?) > > The rest can be implemented in user-land: var md5 = require("md5") And then you get the current 3Mo pages we all hate. Are you even serious with your arguments or is it trolling ? md5 node lib is 32kb unbundled. If you meant 3Mb pages that's ridiculous. Modular necessity at the hands of the user is good, and it's something that's been present in every project i've worked on in a less granular fashion than modern npm-driven apps can deliver.
- sametmax 9y ago
  OP was talking about trading [] for {}. You can't splice on {}.
  - simplicitea 9y ago
    well, objects are not iterables... ??? unless you decide you want them to be, in which case you can make them such and design them in a way that they work as such? The least elegant way is Object.keys().map(key => etc) which is really not that hard to work with edit: it's a phony premise to begin with actually. Iterables have order, objects have mapping. I am less experienced with other languages so I probably don't understand OP's statement clearly. I just think OP's context is lazy thought rot about what's becoming a fairly elegant language. BUT I'm a noob.
z3t4 9y ago
> Besides, JS is the only language I know where half of it is recommended to not be used. That's what you get for having backward compatibility I guess. If the standards committee would break my old code I would probably quit and start a sect. I would call it "ReactReduxReduce" (RRR). > The point is my students will forget the semicolon in some code that is not properly checked, and it will work. Most of the time. Until it doesn't. Some people prefer writing JavaScript without semicolons. How do they not have bugs all over the place ? :P
- heavenlyblue 9y ago
  > Some people prefer writing JavaScript without semicolons. How do they not have bugs all over the place ? :P Some people prefer to have sex with children. How do they not get jailed?
  - notsrg 9y ago
    Ughhhh... what?
    - heavenlyblue 9y ago
      It's amusing how my karma went up and down depending on whether the given person had understood the joke or not; eventually normalising at exactly 1. Nevertheless - I can't blame them as there is no way to tell the irony on the net. Who I can blame is the original parent of this post who was quite confidently stating that omitting semicolons never causes any issues in his code (which is either a statement bounded by scale at which it works for him or it is not error-prone only in specific situations); and then just edited it so that it did not contain that specific line.
- wtetzner 9y ago
  > How do they not have bugs all over the place ? :P Who says they don't?
  - WalterSear 9y ago
coldtea 9y ago
>Besides, JS is the only language I know where half of it is recommended to not be used. Then you probably have never heard of the most successful (by the number of infrastructure written in it with amounts to almost everything in commercial OSes, network services, Google's search backend, most games, most commercial applications, databases, compilers, the JVM, all browsers, etc) -- C++. Where "half of it is recommended to not be used" also. >No shit sherlock ? But again, half of the language is forbidden. And you know somebody is going to write != instead of !== one day, tired. No shit, Einstein. That's why people use linters. In C you can corrupt memory with a stray ++ or alter flow with = instead of ==, fuck things with & instead of && and more. If we threw languages because they allow for errors, we'd have no language left. >Come on, you never used Java, Perl, Ruby, Python? Any language with decent string formatting ? That doesn't need a leftpad dependancy ? That can format date without importing 34ko of moment.js ? So? You've never heard of a language without "batteries included"? >And then you get the current 3Mo pages we all hate. Are you even serious with your arguments or is it trolling ? Are you? Before the problem was that there's no hashing support, now that hashing support is third party and makes pages bigger. As if a language should include everything in its standard library. I assure you most of the "3MB pages" is assets like images, not JS.
- yellowapple 9y ago
  "C++" C++ also gets a lot of hate for half of it being forbidden to use. "If we threw languages because they allow for errors, we'd have no language left." Correction: we'd have Ada, some of those "prove your program is formally correct" metalanguages, and possibly Rust. Probably some others with which I'm not familiar.
  - coldtea 9y ago
    >Correction: we'd have Ada Ada allows for errors just as well. http://www-users.math.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/ariane5rep.html http://www-users.math.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/ariane5rep.h... It's a cargo cult/myth that was circulating from back when I was in university that Ada is some super fault tolerant language because they use it for rockets and stuff and because they designed it to be super secure. It was indeed designed to be more secure than C and to be an official government/military use language, but no "super secure" and allows for errors just fine. Besides, they do rockets in C just as well (with certain rules).
eastern 9y ago
> JS is the only language I know where half of it is recommended to not be used. Jamie Zawinski (who else) about C++ in 'Coders At Work': When you’re programming C++ no one can ever agree on which ten percent of the language is safe to use.
hajile 9y ago
A linter solves 100% of the "issues" you describe related to ASI and type coercion. Every single major editor or IDE has support. > [] + {} '[object Object]' > {} + [] 0 The first case deals with an array, an object, and a concat operator. The second case deals with an empty code block, an array, and a unary math operator. None of that has anything to do with commutative properties because neither unary operators nor string concatenation are commutative in ANY language. > Come on, you never used Java, Perl, Ruby, Python? Any language with decent string formatting ? That doesn't need a leftpad dependancy ? That can format date without importing 34ko of moment.js ? The standard date object sucks, but that's no huge wonder because they were required to make it behave like Java (it even has an old Java Y2K API bug where it returns only the last two year digits). We used to have horrible proceedural, class-based math libraries. Next we moved to underscore. That was replaced with a much faster lazy libraries. The current trend is toward even faster transducer-based solutions with more functional options as well. Which would be the correct language standard? Having been bitten by bad APIs in the past, there's been reluctance to move too quickly in adding extra APIs to the core language. I think the current solution of adding good primitives and leaving the rest to good libraries is an ideal solution (after all, JS can add things, but old mistakes are forever). > And then you get the current 3Mo pages we all hate. We had a multi-MB page. Tree shaking got rid of most of it. Moving the biggest libraries to shared CDN versions that lots of sites use gets rid of a lot of load time as well. Using webpack to chunk your site also reduces the payload to a manageable size. > A mapping is not a list. It doesn't perform the same. You can't push and unshift. You can map on it without Object.stuff. Length is a costly operation. Concat without spread is a pain. And how do you get the "next 3 elements after the 2nd" ? A sparse list uses a map (in fact, Array is defined as a special case of a standard Object -- JITs simply optimize to more efficient data structures when your data allows). Further, if you start deleting in the middle of a list, it will not be optimized past a linked-list anyway (in ANY language). If I were needing to do a bunch of item removal, I'd use this. var removeNth=(x,s)=>x.splice(s,1); //a bit faster var removeNth=(x,s,e=s+1)=>x.splice(s,e-s); //a bit more flexible Array.prototype.removeNth=function(s,e=s+1){this.splice(s,e-s)} //a bad idea, but possible

simplicitea 9y ago

> And how do you get the "next 3 elements after the 2nd" ? .splice(2, 3) (am I missing something?) > > The rest can be implemented in user-land: var md5 = require("md5") And then you get the current 3Mo pages we all hate. Are you even serious with your arguments or is it trolling ? md5 node lib is 32kb unbundled. If you meant 3Mb pages that's ridiculous. Modular necessity at the hands of the user is good, and it's something that's been present in every project i've worked on in a less granular fashion than modern npm-driven apps can deliver.

sametmax 9y ago
OP was talking about trading [] for {}. You can't splice on {}.
- simplicitea 9y ago
  well, objects are not iterables... ??? unless you decide you want them to be, in which case you can make them such and design them in a way that they work as such? The least elegant way is Object.keys().map(key => etc) which is really not that hard to work with edit: it's a phony premise to begin with actually. Iterables have order, objects have mapping. I am less experienced with other languages so I probably don't understand OP's statement clearly. I just think OP's context is lazy thought rot about what's becoming a fairly elegant language. BUT I'm a noob.

z3t4 9y ago

> Besides, JS is the only language I know where half of it is recommended to not be used. That's what you get for having backward compatibility I guess. If the standards committee would break my old code I would probably quit and start a sect. I would call it "ReactReduxReduce" (RRR). > The point is my students will forget the semicolon in some code that is not properly checked, and it will work. Most of the time. Until it doesn't. Some people prefer writing JavaScript without semicolons. How do they not have bugs all over the place ? :P

heavenlyblue 9y ago
> Some people prefer writing JavaScript without semicolons. How do they not have bugs all over the place ? :P Some people prefer to have sex with children. How do they not get jailed?
- notsrg 9y ago
  Ughhhh... what?
  - heavenlyblue 9y ago
    It's amusing how my karma went up and down depending on whether the given person had understood the joke or not; eventually normalising at exactly 1. Nevertheless - I can't blame them as there is no way to tell the irony on the net. Who I can blame is the original parent of this post who was quite confidently stating that omitting semicolons never causes any issues in his code (which is either a statement bounded by scale at which it works for him or it is not error-prone only in specific situations); and then just edited it so that it did not contain that specific line.
wtetzner 9y ago
> How do they not have bugs all over the place ? :P Who says they don't?
- WalterSear 9y ago

coldtea 9y ago

>Besides, JS is the only language I know where half of it is recommended to not be used. Then you probably have never heard of the most successful (by the number of infrastructure written in it with amounts to almost everything in commercial OSes, network services, Google's search backend, most games, most commercial applications, databases, compilers, the JVM, all browsers, etc) -- C++. Where "half of it is recommended to not be used" also. >No shit sherlock ? But again, half of the language is forbidden. And you know somebody is going to write != instead of !== one day, tired. No shit, Einstein. That's why people use linters. In C you can corrupt memory with a stray ++ or alter flow with = instead of ==, fuck things with & instead of && and more. If we threw languages because they allow for errors, we'd have no language left. >Come on, you never used Java, Perl, Ruby, Python? Any language with decent string formatting ? That doesn't need a leftpad dependancy ? That can format date without importing 34ko of moment.js ? So? You've never heard of a language without "batteries included"? >And then you get the current 3Mo pages we all hate. Are you even serious with your arguments or is it trolling ? Are you? Before the problem was that there's no hashing support, now that hashing support is third party and makes pages bigger. As if a language should include everything in its standard library. I assure you most of the "3MB pages" is assets like images, not JS.

yellowapple 9y ago
"C++" C++ also gets a lot of hate for half of it being forbidden to use. "If we threw languages because they allow for errors, we'd have no language left." Correction: we'd have Ada, some of those "prove your program is formally correct" metalanguages, and possibly Rust. Probably some others with which I'm not familiar.
- coldtea 9y ago
  >Correction: we'd have Ada Ada allows for errors just as well. http://www-users.math.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/ariane5rep.html http://www-users.math.umn.edu/~arnold/disasters/ariane5rep.h... It's a cargo cult/myth that was circulating from back when I was in university that Ada is some super fault tolerant language because they use it for rockets and stuff and because they designed it to be super secure. It was indeed designed to be more secure than C and to be an official government/military use language, but no "super secure" and allows for errors just fine. Besides, they do rockets in C just as well (with certain rules).

eastern 9y ago

> JS is the only language I know where half of it is recommended to not be used. Jamie Zawinski (who else) about C++ in 'Coders At Work': When you’re programming C++ no one can ever agree on which ten percent of the language is safe to use.

hajile 9y ago

A linter solves 100% of the "issues" you describe related to ASI and type coercion. Every single major editor or IDE has support. > [] + {} '[object Object]' > {} + [] 0 The first case deals with an array, an object, and a concat operator. The second case deals with an empty code block, an array, and a unary math operator. None of that has anything to do with commutative properties because neither unary operators nor string concatenation are commutative in ANY language. > Come on, you never used Java, Perl, Ruby, Python? Any language with decent string formatting ? That doesn't need a leftpad dependancy ? That can format date without importing 34ko of moment.js ? The standard date object sucks, but that's no huge wonder because they were required to make it behave like Java (it even has an old Java Y2K API bug where it returns only the last two year digits). We used to have horrible proceedural, class-based math libraries. Next we moved to underscore. That was replaced with a much faster lazy libraries. The current trend is toward even faster transducer-based solutions with more functional options as well. Which would be the correct language standard? Having been bitten by bad APIs in the past, there's been reluctance to move too quickly in adding extra APIs to the core language. I think the current solution of adding good primitives and leaving the rest to good libraries is an ideal solution (after all, JS can add things, but old mistakes are forever). > And then you get the current 3Mo pages we all hate. We had a multi-MB page. Tree shaking got rid of most of it. Moving the biggest libraries to shared CDN versions that lots of sites use gets rid of a lot of load time as well. Using webpack to chunk your site also reduces the payload to a manageable size. > A mapping is not a list. It doesn't perform the same. You can't push and unshift. You can map on it without Object.stuff. Length is a costly operation. Concat without spread is a pain. And how do you get the "next 3 elements after the 2nd" ? A sparse list uses a map (in fact, Array is defined as a special case of a standard Object -- JITs simply optimize to more efficient data structures when your data allows). Further, if you start deleting in the middle of a list, it will not be optimized past a linked-list anyway (in ANY language). If I were needing to do a bunch of item removal, I'd use this. var removeNth=(x,s)=>x.splice(s,1); //a bit faster var removeNth=(x,s,e=s+1)=>x.splice(s,e-s); //a bit more flexible Array.prototype.removeNth=function(s,e=s+1){this.splice(s,e-s)} //a bad idea, but possible