5 ms·

Why would that be surprising? Hungary and Slovak Republic are countries with long traditions of strong education.

by dragandj 9y ago

yazan94 9y ago
For a while, isn't that what we prided ourselves in here in America?
- cafard 9y ago
  The US has generally done well in expanding access to schooling. That has not been the same as strength in education.
onion2k 9y ago
It's surprising because the per capita expenditure on education is higher in the US than pretty much everywhere else[1]. Assuming everything else is approximately equal (there are enough teachers, teachers havw proper access to materials, the intelligence of children is the same, etc) it implies that either spending more on education has a negative impact or that the US is using the wrong teaching methods. [1] http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/apr/21/jeb-bush/does-united-states-spend-more-student-most-countri/ http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/apr/21/jeb...
- dragandj 9y ago
  It's not all about the money, it's obvious....
- cyrks 9y ago
  While educational spending per student is higher in the US, the travesty is where that money is spent. It's not all spent on the students. If it were, the US wouldn't have the (overall) terrible public educational system that it has.
  - ouid 9y ago
    https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/SMART-kapp-IQ-Pro-65-interactive-whiteboard-serial-USB-Bluetooth-4.0/3934071.aspx https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/SMART-kapp-IQ-Pro-65-inter... I recently visited a school with one of these in every classroom. Every student has a laptop. Every classroom has an unused commercial "curriculum" product in the corner. And given how much administrators make, and presumably embezzle, I'm not even sure these are bad investments, in a relative sense.
- frandroid 9y ago
  I'd also look at purchasing power parity... A dollar goes a long way in education in countries with weaker currencies.
- gozur88 9y ago
  Or... it could imply that in the US the perception is your future depends less on whether you can conquer advanced math, so students aren't as motivated to learn. I would argue that perception is a bit wrongheaded, but perceptions are what people use to make decisions.
  - morugin 9y ago
    I grew up poor. A common sentiment among my peers about math was "I will never use this". No teacher ever corrected this sentiment. Teachers and parents alike seemed to accept that the kids were not able to succeed academically. There was no malicious intent, just acceptance. The kids were actors in a social environment in which trying hard in academics was a source of stigma rather than status. The overwhelming majority of kids (including me) received poor educations. I learned this in college when I was shocked by the difficulty of the courses. The majority of the kids passed high school because the standards were lowered. I think lowering the standards in college is failing to target the source of the problem. I believe the further you get from hard skills (e.g., math or cs) the more relevant your soft skills become (e.g., cultural fit)[0]. The fact of the matter is that poor people have a distinct culture and it involves many elements that are not normative. I don't know if it is objectively more difficult to assimilate culturally or learn hard skills. On the other hand, I found it so difficult to assimilate to my PhD program in a social science that I didn't finish. I found programming to be much easier, albeit still a difficult mid-career change, than assimilating culturally. If it is the case that acquiring hard skills offers better opportunities for the poor to rise, then that is exactly what teachers and parents should be telling their kids. That is exactly what those with "sympathy for the poor" should be funding. [0]Brendan Eich & the Googler who wrote about diversity are counter examples. I can (but I won't) argue the case they have better chances financially due to their hard skills compared to a person in a occupation lacking said skills.
stevenwoo 9y ago
Finland was able to turn itself around in a generation from one of the worst pre college education systems in the West to one of the best, ironically using research from the USA. http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/january/finnish-schools-reform-012012.html http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/january/finnish-schools-r... Of course, a smaller, more homogeneous society would be easier to change than the USA.

Why would that be surprising? Hungary and Slovak Republic are countries with long traditions of strong education.

yazan94 9y ago

For a while, isn't that what we prided ourselves in here in America?

cafard 9y ago
The US has generally done well in expanding access to schooling. That has not been the same as strength in education.

onion2k 9y ago

It's surprising because the per capita expenditure on education is higher in the US than pretty much everywhere else[1]. Assuming everything else is approximately equal (there are enough teachers, teachers havw proper access to materials, the intelligence of children is the same, etc) it implies that either spending more on education has a negative impact or that the US is using the wrong teaching methods. [1] http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/apr/21/jeb-bush/does-united-states-spend-more-student-most-countri/ http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2015/apr/21/jeb...

dragandj 9y ago
It's not all about the money, it's obvious....
cyrks 9y ago
While educational spending per student is higher in the US, the travesty is where that money is spent. It's not all spent on the students. If it were, the US wouldn't have the (overall) terrible public educational system that it has.
- ouid 9y ago
  https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/SMART-kapp-IQ-Pro-65-interactive-whiteboard-serial-USB-Bluetooth-4.0/3934071.aspx https://www.cdw.com/shop/products/SMART-kapp-IQ-Pro-65-inter... I recently visited a school with one of these in every classroom. Every student has a laptop. Every classroom has an unused commercial "curriculum" product in the corner. And given how much administrators make, and presumably embezzle, I'm not even sure these are bad investments, in a relative sense.
frandroid 9y ago
I'd also look at purchasing power parity... A dollar goes a long way in education in countries with weaker currencies.
gozur88 9y ago
Or... it could imply that in the US the perception is your future depends less on whether you can conquer advanced math, so students aren't as motivated to learn. I would argue that perception is a bit wrongheaded, but perceptions are what people use to make decisions.
- morugin 9y ago
  I grew up poor. A common sentiment among my peers about math was "I will never use this". No teacher ever corrected this sentiment. Teachers and parents alike seemed to accept that the kids were not able to succeed academically. There was no malicious intent, just acceptance. The kids were actors in a social environment in which trying hard in academics was a source of stigma rather than status. The overwhelming majority of kids (including me) received poor educations. I learned this in college when I was shocked by the difficulty of the courses. The majority of the kids passed high school because the standards were lowered. I think lowering the standards in college is failing to target the source of the problem. I believe the further you get from hard skills (e.g., math or cs) the more relevant your soft skills become (e.g., cultural fit)[0]. The fact of the matter is that poor people have a distinct culture and it involves many elements that are not normative. I don't know if it is objectively more difficult to assimilate culturally or learn hard skills. On the other hand, I found it so difficult to assimilate to my PhD program in a social science that I didn't finish. I found programming to be much easier, albeit still a difficult mid-career change, than assimilating culturally. If it is the case that acquiring hard skills offers better opportunities for the poor to rise, then that is exactly what teachers and parents should be telling their kids. That is exactly what those with "sympathy for the poor" should be funding. [0]Brendan Eich & the Googler who wrote about diversity are counter examples. I can (but I won't) argue the case they have better chances financially due to their hard skills compared to a person in a occupation lacking said skills.

stevenwoo 9y ago

Finland was able to turn itself around in a generation from one of the worst pre college education systems in the West to one of the best, ironically using research from the USA. http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/january/finnish-schools-reform-012012.html http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/january/finnish-schools-r... Of course, a smaller, more homogeneous society would be easier to change than the USA.