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I seriously considered buying an e-bike for commuting to work (I'm in Australia too). The biggest obstacle for me are the laws. We follow the euro laws (max 250

by chubs 9y ago

I seriously considered buying an e-bike for commuting to work (I'm in Australia too). The biggest obstacle for me are the laws. We follow the euro laws (max 250 watts, and max 25km/h). The power is fine for a skinny-tire road bike, but you really need more for a suspension bike. Our roads aren't as nice as europe - you really want to ride a dual suspension mountain bike. Also my commute is 40 KM each way (very common), so you really want to be travelling faster than 25! I imagine people in europe don't commute that far. So it doesn't look to me like the rules work particularly well for us, at least it swung me against buying one personally.

saiya-jin 9y ago
what you write makes complete sense, but there is the other side - these fast bikes are completely silent, and according to my fiancee who is a doctor there is a surge of very grave injuries done by people on e-bikes who are becoming more like motorbikes, but completely silent. so what you describe is great, but would require similar/same driving license as some weaker type of motorbikes, with plates, registration etc. are you willing to go through this?
amiga-workbench 9y ago
I've got a 1000W bike which is ridden off road for 95% of my commute. I've found when I kick the limiter in on my controller box, I don't have anywhere near enough power to assist with getting up hills. The 25km/h limit probably wouldn't be so bad on its own, its the 250W limit that makes things very awkward.
- chubs 9y ago
  That sounds like a pretty damn sweet ride!
  - amiga-workbench 9y ago
    http://i.imgur.com/OH1iPId.jpg http://i.imgur.com/OH1iPId.jpg Its just a bodge job, Chinese conversion kit on a cheap frame but it works well.
    - celticninja 9y ago
      does it add a lot of weight? Enough to make cycling without the electric assist a pain in the ass? I dont really need one on my commute (20km each way) but I like to tinker and seems like a fun project.
      - amiga-workbench 9y ago
        Sadly yes, the battery pack is heavy and the motor makes the bike more difficult to manually peddle. I bought mine as a bit of a stopgap until I'm physically fit enough to manage the commute unassisted.
    - chubs 9y ago
      Looks like a wheelie machine! Badass!
  - Monotoko 9y ago
    I have a 2000W bike in China, I modified it from a legal 800W bike. It goes 80 with the limiter off but I don't get to use it in non urban environments much.
- jbergens 9y ago
  I have tried commuting on an e-bike and it worked really well but I would still like the top speed to be increased to about 30 km/h (could be 33 km/h to match the US rules of 20 mph). In Sweden there is a secondary class of bikes that can have motor support up to 45 km/h but those require an insurance that costs a lot of money. And they eat batteries, those has to get better.
  - amiga-workbench 9y ago
    I begin to notice the voltage drop after about 8 miles and have to throttle back to stop the controller unit cutting out. Its enough to get me to and from work on one charge though. I can get up to 30mph on my bike but I stay slower just out of concern for pedestrians. I always slow down to a crawl when passing people, especially those who are walking dogs just to be on the safe side. Sadly there are those who insist on bombing down the footpath at full throttle who spoil it for the rest of us.
dalbasal 9y ago
I think whatever the rules are, you'll always run into a barrier like the one you're describing. Longer distances, higher speed, more weight.... At some (arbitrary) point there's a classification change that puts you in motorbike category. I think outer suburb commutes in large Australian cities will always push that category. As you say, you need more speed, range, suspension. These add weight, require more saftey measures. To cover these use cases, we probably need a new light/electric motorbike category, with its own rules.
roel_v 9y ago
We have those restrictions because before them, people would ride too fast on bicycle lanes, causing a danger to real cyclists. I'm not sure what you're complaining about, it seems what you need is an electric (or not) moped, of which there are many. I hope you're not expecting to be able to use bike lanes going 40 or 50 km/h.
- _kyran 9y ago
  Plenty of people on road bikes already ride at 40km/h in bike lanes
  - c3833174 9y ago
    At least they get some use, for some reason various adminstrations where I live think it's a good idea to place bike lanes with concrete curbs on an alredy narrow european road. Not only they waste space, but they are empty most of the day and pro cyclists eschew them for the road.
- chubs 9y ago
  I'm riding mostly on the shoulder of highways where there are no pedestrians and rarely other bikes. I'm happy to have bike speed limits, eg 25 around pedestrians, 50 on the highway shoulder. I already do 55-65 for long downhill stretches as it is on my unpowered road bike, it's bliss :)
lumberjack 9y ago
Why not just get a moped then? Doesn't even need to be electric. A small capacity petrol moped is going to be super cheap to operate and decently clean. Being in Australia, I believe you have the legendary postie bikes.
- chubs 9y ago
  Fair point!
ehnto 9y ago
I definitely ride my conventional bicycle up to 30kmph+ in bicycle lanes, both separated and beside the road. I think 25km/h is simply too low. I do think anything over 40kmph is getting silly however. You may as well be on a petrol scooter at that point. I also have no idea why they insist on it being pedal assisted rather than throttle based. The regulation states that you have to be pedalling for it to engage the motor, so you can't just engage the electric motor on it's own. Such a regulation really limits the possible kits and bicycles you can purchase, as the Australian market seems to be lagging behind the rest of the world and the options are fewer.
- exodust 9y ago
  Well he can keep peddling beyond 25, the motor just doesn't assist past that speed. If road is flat, this would be easy enough. I'm guessing by "conventional bicycle" you don't mean a mountain bike. Try riding a mountain bike at 30+, it feels wrong. Your whole posture is too upright, it's not designed for speed. Not easy to reach 30 on a mountain bike without going downhill.
  - GhostVII 9y ago
    I ride my mountain bike 30+ all the time, it feels fine. It definitely makes me a bit more sweaty, but is a sustainable speed for a few kilometres at least especially if there is a bit of a slope.
    - exodust 9y ago
      Right, so a slope is needed to sustain 30. I highly doubt any mountain bikers are sustaining 30+ on the flat with knobbly tyres and dual suspension.
- fulafel 9y ago
  Your mindset of the power assist might be different from what the regulation 25 km/h ebike embodies. It's meant to help you uphill or keep moving forward with low effort, not boost your speed while you put in a lot of physical exercise. (in Europe you can get 45 km/h pedelecs too, but you may need traffic insurance and be banned from bike lanes)
exodust 9y ago
> "The biggest obstacle for me are the laws (max 250 watts, and max 25km/h)" 25 km/h on a dual suspension mountain bike is fast enough. Have you ever ridden a mountain bike at this speed? It feels fast. Lots of wind, lots of speed, lots of focus needed, and if you fall off at that speed... OUCH. Imagine you could increase that limit to 30 or 35 km/h. You are now travelling VERY fast for a mountain bike on a bike path. Too fast in my opinion. Those paths are often shared. Hitting or clipping someone at 30 km/h won't be pretty. Besides, there's nothing stopping you pedalling faster than 25, the motor stops assisting, but you easily push past that if you pedal in top gear. The motors are efficient enough now that 250 watts will get you to 25 even for a mountain bike.
Tepix 9y ago
In Germany you can get faster ebikes that can do 45km/h. There are some legal requirements for them (need to get insurance, a license plate and wear a helmet) but nothing too serious. Is it the same in Australia?
- chubs 9y ago
  No such luck for us :(

by chubs 9y ago

saiya-jin 9y ago

what you write makes complete sense, but there is the other side - these fast bikes are completely silent, and according to my fiancee who is a doctor there is a surge of very grave injuries done by people on e-bikes who are becoming more like motorbikes, but completely silent. so what you describe is great, but would require similar/same driving license as some weaker type of motorbikes, with plates, registration etc. are you willing to go through this?

amiga-workbench 9y ago

I've got a 1000W bike which is ridden off road for 95% of my commute. I've found when I kick the limiter in on my controller box, I don't have anywhere near enough power to assist with getting up hills. The 25km/h limit probably wouldn't be so bad on its own, its the 250W limit that makes things very awkward.

chubs 9y ago
That sounds like a pretty damn sweet ride!
- amiga-workbench 9y ago
  http://i.imgur.com/OH1iPId.jpg http://i.imgur.com/OH1iPId.jpg Its just a bodge job, Chinese conversion kit on a cheap frame but it works well.
  - celticninja 9y ago
    does it add a lot of weight? Enough to make cycling without the electric assist a pain in the ass? I dont really need one on my commute (20km each way) but I like to tinker and seems like a fun project.
    - amiga-workbench 9y ago
      Sadly yes, the battery pack is heavy and the motor makes the bike more difficult to manually peddle. I bought mine as a bit of a stopgap until I'm physically fit enough to manage the commute unassisted.
  - chubs 9y ago
    Looks like a wheelie machine! Badass!
- Monotoko 9y ago
  I have a 2000W bike in China, I modified it from a legal 800W bike. It goes 80 with the limiter off but I don't get to use it in non urban environments much.
jbergens 9y ago
I have tried commuting on an e-bike and it worked really well but I would still like the top speed to be increased to about 30 km/h (could be 33 km/h to match the US rules of 20 mph). In Sweden there is a secondary class of bikes that can have motor support up to 45 km/h but those require an insurance that costs a lot of money. And they eat batteries, those has to get better.
- amiga-workbench 9y ago
  I begin to notice the voltage drop after about 8 miles and have to throttle back to stop the controller unit cutting out. Its enough to get me to and from work on one charge though. I can get up to 30mph on my bike but I stay slower just out of concern for pedestrians. I always slow down to a crawl when passing people, especially those who are walking dogs just to be on the safe side. Sadly there are those who insist on bombing down the footpath at full throttle who spoil it for the rest of us.

dalbasal 9y ago

I think whatever the rules are, you'll always run into a barrier like the one you're describing. Longer distances, higher speed, more weight.... At some (arbitrary) point there's a classification change that puts you in motorbike category. I think outer suburb commutes in large Australian cities will always push that category. As you say, you need more speed, range, suspension. These add weight, require more saftey measures. To cover these use cases, we probably need a new light/electric motorbike category, with its own rules.

roel_v 9y ago

We have those restrictions because before them, people would ride too fast on bicycle lanes, causing a danger to real cyclists. I'm not sure what you're complaining about, it seems what you need is an electric (or not) moped, of which there are many. I hope you're not expecting to be able to use bike lanes going 40 or 50 km/h.

_kyran 9y ago
Plenty of people on road bikes already ride at 40km/h in bike lanes
- c3833174 9y ago
  At least they get some use, for some reason various adminstrations where I live think it's a good idea to place bike lanes with concrete curbs on an alredy narrow european road. Not only they waste space, but they are empty most of the day and pro cyclists eschew them for the road.
chubs 9y ago
I'm riding mostly on the shoulder of highways where there are no pedestrians and rarely other bikes. I'm happy to have bike speed limits, eg 25 around pedestrians, 50 on the highway shoulder. I already do 55-65 for long downhill stretches as it is on my unpowered road bike, it's bliss :)

lumberjack 9y ago

Why not just get a moped then? Doesn't even need to be electric. A small capacity petrol moped is going to be super cheap to operate and decently clean. Being in Australia, I believe you have the legendary postie bikes.

chubs 9y ago
Fair point!

ehnto 9y ago

I definitely ride my conventional bicycle up to 30kmph+ in bicycle lanes, both separated and beside the road. I think 25km/h is simply too low. I do think anything over 40kmph is getting silly however. You may as well be on a petrol scooter at that point. I also have no idea why they insist on it being pedal assisted rather than throttle based. The regulation states that you have to be pedalling for it to engage the motor, so you can't just engage the electric motor on it's own. Such a regulation really limits the possible kits and bicycles you can purchase, as the Australian market seems to be lagging behind the rest of the world and the options are fewer.

exodust 9y ago
Well he can keep peddling beyond 25, the motor just doesn't assist past that speed. If road is flat, this would be easy enough. I'm guessing by "conventional bicycle" you don't mean a mountain bike. Try riding a mountain bike at 30+, it feels wrong. Your whole posture is too upright, it's not designed for speed. Not easy to reach 30 on a mountain bike without going downhill.
- GhostVII 9y ago
  I ride my mountain bike 30+ all the time, it feels fine. It definitely makes me a bit more sweaty, but is a sustainable speed for a few kilometres at least especially if there is a bit of a slope.
  - exodust 9y ago
    Right, so a slope is needed to sustain 30. I highly doubt any mountain bikers are sustaining 30+ on the flat with knobbly tyres and dual suspension.
fulafel 9y ago
Your mindset of the power assist might be different from what the regulation 25 km/h ebike embodies. It's meant to help you uphill or keep moving forward with low effort, not boost your speed while you put in a lot of physical exercise. (in Europe you can get 45 km/h pedelecs too, but you may need traffic insurance and be banned from bike lanes)

exodust 9y ago

> "The biggest obstacle for me are the laws (max 250 watts, and max 25km/h)" 25 km/h on a dual suspension mountain bike is fast enough. Have you ever ridden a mountain bike at this speed? It feels fast. Lots of wind, lots of speed, lots of focus needed, and if you fall off at that speed... OUCH. Imagine you could increase that limit to 30 or 35 km/h. You are now travelling VERY fast for a mountain bike on a bike path. Too fast in my opinion. Those paths are often shared. Hitting or clipping someone at 30 km/h won't be pretty. Besides, there's nothing stopping you pedalling faster than 25, the motor stops assisting, but you easily push past that if you pedal in top gear. The motors are efficient enough now that 250 watts will get you to 25 even for a mountain bike.

Tepix 9y ago

In Germany you can get faster ebikes that can do 45km/h. There are some legal requirements for them (need to get insurance, a license plate and wear a helmet) but nothing too serious. Is it the same in Australia?

chubs 9y ago
No such luck for us :(