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> Brendan Eich was ousted for "controversial politics" on his own time. That's a completely different situation, and can't really be compared. A CEO position f

> Brendan Eich was ousted for "controversial politics" on his own time. That's a completely different situation, and can't really be compared. A CEO position for a non-profit and Sr. Engineer at Google are not comparable. A CEO position is the public face of a company. There is so much more that goes into it on multiple levels than being an engineer with only 4 years under their belt who nobody has ever heard of. Had he posted this to a personal blog, it would have barely been a footnote. And more importantly, California law would have protected him.

chrisco255 9y ago
Not in this day and age. One of my high school teachers posted political commentary to his Facebook profile that was controversial to some. It went viral and he got fired...effectively for his religious beliefs. We live in a day and age of viral outrage. So some might say he's a teacher and therefore he can't make his students uncomfortable. So his free speech is effectively cut off. Meanwhile as a student in college I'm forced to suffer through the opinions of heavily biased professors who literally assign term papers which only act as exercises in progressive liberal confirmation bias.
- michaelchisari 9y ago
  K-12 teachers have always had an ethical behavior imperative outside of school, by virtue of their position. That's nothing new. The difference now is that so much of what we do is found so easily. I can't really evaluate anything else you've said without examples of that person's "religious beliefs" or your professors "heavily biased progressive liberal confirmation bias".
  - chrisco255 9y ago
    There's nothing unethical about posting an opinion on Facebook. I was literally unfriended by a progressive classmate of mine because I ate Chik-Fil-A nuggets in the wake of that company's CEO's stance on gay marriage. I support gay marriage...but I just wanted some sweet tea and fried chicken. I suppose I was not sufficiently outraged for this progressive. That's how bad some people have gotten.
    - michaelchisari 9y ago
      I don't understand. Are you a K-12 teacher? Ethical behavior imperatives apply to K-12 teachers. I'm sorry you got unfriended though. I hope you're doing ok.
      - chrisco255 9y ago
        I'm just indicating how strongly people feel about their views these days. I wouldn't even unfriend someone for saying offensive things about conservatives, even though my whole family is that. People have gotten very tribal and very righteous about very trivial things (like chicken nuggets). K-12 teachers still deserve first amendment rights. They have a right to say controversial things (outside of work hours)...that's precisely what the Constitution protects. This isn't ethics...this is speech. If folks haven't learned to accept that some people will sometimes offend you with their opinions and that it's okay...then I question their ability to function as adults. The teacher did end up getting reinstated but not before some lengthy dragged out debacle. We can't say the first amendment applies to everyone except teachers or CEOs or (insert arbitrary profession here). We can't say progressive views are inherently less offensive than conservative views and proceed to shut down conservative speech through intimidation or termination. That's ridiculous. It doesn't matter which class of people were offended. If all that matters is who is offended the strongest, then all you're doing is setting up an arms race for which side can get the most riled up. You're not encouraging constructive dialog and nobody is growing. Offensive speech happens.
        eesmith 9y ago
        "These days"? This is nothing new. People did the same with Coors back in the 1960s and 1970s. Quoting from http://www.cpr.org/news/story/coors-boycott-when-beer-can-signaled-your-politics http://www.cpr.org/news/story/coors-boycott-when-beer-can-si... "For some Americans in the 1960s and 1970s, Coors—the iconic Rocky Mountain brew—signified views about labor, race, and gender equality. The Coors boycotts, beginning in 1966 and lasting, for some people, right up to the present, connected a wide spectrum of activists and organizations, much like the successful grape boycott organized by Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers in the 1960s. ... In 1969, 43 Chicano students at Southern Colorado State College (SCSC) - now Colorado State University-Pueblo- joined hands around the campus pub to keep people from ordering any Coors beer. ... The boycotts had a clear financial impact. In California, where anti-Coors sentiment was high, the company’s share of the state beer market slid from 40 percent in 1977 to 14 percent in 1984." Here's a quote from "The Milagro Beanfield War", written in 1974.: "Okay, gimme a pack of Camels and a Coors tallboy. No, wait a sec, make that a Hamms, there's a boycott on Coors." Here's an article from the Lakeland Ledger Dec 28, 1975, https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19751228&id=qEdNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4foDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4777,7408732 https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19751228&id=... . Among other things, numerous gay bars in SF stopped serving Coors already by that time. Regarding K-12 teachers, see https://www.aclu-wa.org/docs/free-speech-rights-public-school-teachers-washington-state https://www.aclu-wa.org/docs/free-speech-rights-public-schoo... . They have First Amendment rights. "However, if you use social media to comment about students, school or other work-related matters, or you use it to engage in what might be considered conduct impairing your functioning as a teacher, the First Amendment may not protect you." It then lists some examples: • a court upheld a demotion of a teacher who posted derogatory comments about a school administrator on her blog. • a court upheld the firing of a teacher who communicated with students through MySpace inappropriately, “as if he were their peer.” • A court upheld the firing of a teacher who posted sexually explicit Craigslist ads (“immoral conduct” made him unfit to teach). The relevant Supreme Court case is Garcetti v. Ceballos, which applies to all public employees. As the last point shows, K-12 teachers are often subject to morality clauses, with a gray area in what that means. Olivia Sprauer in FL was fired for working in off-hours as a glamour model, wearing bikinis.

chrisco255 9y ago

Not in this day and age. One of my high school teachers posted political commentary to his Facebook profile that was controversial to some. It went viral and he got fired...effectively for his religious beliefs. We live in a day and age of viral outrage. So some might say he's a teacher and therefore he can't make his students uncomfortable. So his free speech is effectively cut off. Meanwhile as a student in college I'm forced to suffer through the opinions of heavily biased professors who literally assign term papers which only act as exercises in progressive liberal confirmation bias.

michaelchisari 9y ago
K-12 teachers have always had an ethical behavior imperative outside of school, by virtue of their position. That's nothing new. The difference now is that so much of what we do is found so easily. I can't really evaluate anything else you've said without examples of that person's "religious beliefs" or your professors "heavily biased progressive liberal confirmation bias".
- chrisco255 9y ago
  There's nothing unethical about posting an opinion on Facebook. I was literally unfriended by a progressive classmate of mine because I ate Chik-Fil-A nuggets in the wake of that company's CEO's stance on gay marriage. I support gay marriage...but I just wanted some sweet tea and fried chicken. I suppose I was not sufficiently outraged for this progressive. That's how bad some people have gotten.
  - michaelchisari 9y ago
    I don't understand. Are you a K-12 teacher? Ethical behavior imperatives apply to K-12 teachers. I'm sorry you got unfriended though. I hope you're doing ok.
    - chrisco255 9y ago
      I'm just indicating how strongly people feel about their views these days. I wouldn't even unfriend someone for saying offensive things about conservatives, even though my whole family is that. People have gotten very tribal and very righteous about very trivial things (like chicken nuggets). K-12 teachers still deserve first amendment rights. They have a right to say controversial things (outside of work hours)...that's precisely what the Constitution protects. This isn't ethics...this is speech. If folks haven't learned to accept that some people will sometimes offend you with their opinions and that it's okay...then I question their ability to function as adults. The teacher did end up getting reinstated but not before some lengthy dragged out debacle. We can't say the first amendment applies to everyone except teachers or CEOs or (insert arbitrary profession here). We can't say progressive views are inherently less offensive than conservative views and proceed to shut down conservative speech through intimidation or termination. That's ridiculous. It doesn't matter which class of people were offended. If all that matters is who is offended the strongest, then all you're doing is setting up an arms race for which side can get the most riled up. You're not encouraging constructive dialog and nobody is growing. Offensive speech happens.
      - eesmith 9y ago
        "These days"? This is nothing new. People did the same with Coors back in the 1960s and 1970s. Quoting from http://www.cpr.org/news/story/coors-boycott-when-beer-can-signaled-your-politics http://www.cpr.org/news/story/coors-boycott-when-beer-can-si... "For some Americans in the 1960s and 1970s, Coors—the iconic Rocky Mountain brew—signified views about labor, race, and gender equality. The Coors boycotts, beginning in 1966 and lasting, for some people, right up to the present, connected a wide spectrum of activists and organizations, much like the successful grape boycott organized by Cesar Chavez and the United Farm Workers in the 1960s. ... In 1969, 43 Chicano students at Southern Colorado State College (SCSC) - now Colorado State University-Pueblo- joined hands around the campus pub to keep people from ordering any Coors beer. ... The boycotts had a clear financial impact. In California, where anti-Coors sentiment was high, the company’s share of the state beer market slid from 40 percent in 1977 to 14 percent in 1984." Here's a quote from "The Milagro Beanfield War", written in 1974.: "Okay, gimme a pack of Camels and a Coors tallboy. No, wait a sec, make that a Hamms, there's a boycott on Coors." Here's an article from the Lakeland Ledger Dec 28, 1975, https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19751228&id=qEdNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=4foDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4777,7408732 https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1346&dat=19751228&id=... . Among other things, numerous gay bars in SF stopped serving Coors already by that time. Regarding K-12 teachers, see https://www.aclu-wa.org/docs/free-speech-rights-public-school-teachers-washington-state https://www.aclu-wa.org/docs/free-speech-rights-public-schoo... . They have First Amendment rights. "However, if you use social media to comment about students, school or other work-related matters, or you use it to engage in what might be considered conduct impairing your functioning as a teacher, the First Amendment may not protect you." It then lists some examples: • a court upheld a demotion of a teacher who posted derogatory comments about a school administrator on her blog. • a court upheld the firing of a teacher who communicated with students through MySpace inappropriately, “as if he were their peer.” • A court upheld the firing of a teacher who posted sexually explicit Craigslist ads (“immoral conduct” made him unfit to teach). The relevant Supreme Court case is Garcetti v. Ceballos, which applies to all public employees. As the last point shows, K-12 teachers are often subject to morality clauses, with a gray area in what that means. Olivia Sprauer in FL was fired for working in off-hours as a glamour model, wearing bikinis.