6 ms·

This DaMore guy doesn't have a lot of political savvyness. First off, I think his manifesto contained more nuance than has been attributed to it. I agreed with

This DaMore guy doesn't have a lot of political savvyness. First off, I think his manifesto contained more nuance than has been attributed to it. I agreed with some points and disagreed with others. I think the length was a bit excessive but it's not the kind of thing that would make me raise an eyebrow. Still, by publishing to to the entire company, he was openly challenging the views of his employer and forcing them to respond in spades. It was a move with no real upside but plenty of potential downsides. Now, with half of Twitter eager to write him off as an alt-right douchebag, what does he do? Yup, gives an interview on an alt-right YouTube channel. This is a brilliant coup for Peter Molyneux but for DaMore there is absolutely no upside to being associated with those guys. Thing is, I don't think DaMore is a bad person. I think he is earnestly trying to understand the current diversity fad and to spark a debate around its causes and effects. But he has quickly turned himself into a pawn in everyone else's game.

senectus1 9y ago
yeah. agreed. that video was painful on a lot of levels.
Shad0w59 9y ago
Great for Peter Molyneux, his best work since Fable, Black & White and Dungeon Keeper. Sorry, couldn't resist.
- mvindahl 9y ago
  Heh .. my bad, Stefan Molyneux of course.
Red_Tarsius 9y ago
Stefan's old videos were much better. He's not alt-right, I don't know what's gotten into him. He might be a victim of his own brand, choosing to cater to his new audience at the expense of integrity. I was extremely disappointed to find out that he denies climate change. I agree with you. Journalists and reporters are going to circle around DaMore like vultures. They only love the drama and don't give a damn about the debate.
- zo1 9y ago
  I've been following Stefan for quite a few years, even back when he was doing pod-casts from his car. He doesn't strike me as having changed much for the sake of pandering to his audience. Though he does sometimes tend be over the top and theatrical for entertainment's sake. If anything, I believe he's in a bit of a tough situation. After valuing arguments and facts so much, he can't help but follow the facts wherever they may lead.
  - Red_Tarsius 9y ago
    I'm sorry, integrity was not a good choice of a word. But he didn't handle Damore's interview as well as I hoped. He's still one of the few video makers I truly appreciate. He leads you to question core beliefs people take for granted. I wish he focused more on other issues: The Truth About... history series and King Lear Revealed are among my favorite segments.
dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago
I'd love to hear what Damore says, but the Molyneux hijacks the video and is talking non-stop in such an irritating way it's difficult to listen to. If someone could cut Molyneux out of it, I think the video would me more watchable - and 10 times shorter.
danso 9y ago
My thoughts exactly. I don't think Damore is necessarily a bad person. Not everyone who opposes his memo came into their own belief systems a priori. But those people are more cognizant of their own blind spots/igonorance and don't attend to push a manifesto onto their entire company message board.
heisenbit 9y ago
His lack of political savyness is mind-boggling but then he was hired not for that. He clearly made a mistake in how he said things not in what he said. The latter is more winded than necessary and nuanced than many give him credit - a draft collection of thoughts for internal discussion in a small group of non judgemental friends. One political problem he clearly ignored is that it hit a company embroiled in wage discrimination lawsuits. Whether the company overreacted probably will be decided in court - details matter and we do not have all of them e.g. how common is it that employees mail the whole company.
- dfraser992 9y ago
  > His lack of political savyness is mind-boggling but then he was hired not for that. No... I can see something of me (from 20 years ago) in him. Engineer (or is he even a 'real' one given his degree?), male, mid-20s... I don't find his lack of understanding exactly how "political" people and society actually are (and predominantly so, to the detriment of capital T-truth) to be unexpected. People can be, and tend to be, willfully manipulative, and it takes some life experience to get a handle on that knowledge. In my mid-20s, I was a government contractor working on a large DoD project. Some impromptu hallway meeting with the bigwig PM running the whole thing led me to going blahblah with him explaining how easy it might be to do something he'd dreamt up the day before. I was just being an engineer who didn't understand social systems very well. So a few hours later, I get sort of chewed out by various PMs on our side as this 'idea' which was not in the contract and not in scope was now in scope... Part of the learning experience of how business actually works, and building things (hell, everything) is secondary to profit. The actual engineering part is secondary to organizational related bullshit - always. Basically, I think engineers need more exposure to the humanities and stuff like this might not happen. That is another essay entirely, explaining how STEM subjects became excessively important since the 60s, to the detriment of society. The stereotypical engineer does not understand social systems very well, I certainly didn't. But at this point in my life, I think understanding them is far more important than knowing a bunch of tech that will generally be obsolete in a few years; understanding how insane Western society is in some respects has become easy. I didn't read all of his manifesto, it was tedious and I understand enough social psych et al already... There is a balance that needs to struck and all the ideologues on both sides don't care for things to be in balance. Everything else in the parent comment, I agree with. Now I read that female Google employees may be suing re: the wage gap etc. Hmmm... I actually blew off two attempts from Google years ago to interview me :) I didn't want to go through their stupid interview process and had already had enough of large badly managed orgs (i.e. the DoD). The pay would have been nice though (a joke!)

senectus1 9y ago

yeah. agreed. that video was painful on a lot of levels.

Shad0w59 9y ago

Great for Peter Molyneux, his best work since Fable, Black & White and Dungeon Keeper. Sorry, couldn't resist.

mvindahl 9y ago
Heh .. my bad, Stefan Molyneux of course.

Red_Tarsius 9y ago

Stefan's old videos were much better. He's not alt-right, I don't know what's gotten into him. He might be a victim of his own brand, choosing to cater to his new audience at the expense of integrity. I was extremely disappointed to find out that he denies climate change. I agree with you. Journalists and reporters are going to circle around DaMore like vultures. They only love the drama and don't give a damn about the debate.

zo1 9y ago
I've been following Stefan for quite a few years, even back when he was doing pod-casts from his car. He doesn't strike me as having changed much for the sake of pandering to his audience. Though he does sometimes tend be over the top and theatrical for entertainment's sake. If anything, I believe he's in a bit of a tough situation. After valuing arguments and facts so much, he can't help but follow the facts wherever they may lead.
- Red_Tarsius 9y ago
  I'm sorry, integrity was not a good choice of a word. But he didn't handle Damore's interview as well as I hoped. He's still one of the few video makers I truly appreciate. He leads you to question core beliefs people take for granted. I wish he focused more on other issues: The Truth About... history series and King Lear Revealed are among my favorite segments.

dvfjsdhgfv 9y ago

I'd love to hear what Damore says, but the Molyneux hijacks the video and is talking non-stop in such an irritating way it's difficult to listen to. If someone could cut Molyneux out of it, I think the video would me more watchable - and 10 times shorter.

danso 9y ago

My thoughts exactly. I don't think Damore is necessarily a bad person. Not everyone who opposes his memo came into their own belief systems a priori. But those people are more cognizant of their own blind spots/igonorance and don't attend to push a manifesto onto their entire company message board.

heisenbit 9y ago

His lack of political savyness is mind-boggling but then he was hired not for that. He clearly made a mistake in how he said things not in what he said. The latter is more winded than necessary and nuanced than many give him credit - a draft collection of thoughts for internal discussion in a small group of non judgemental friends. One political problem he clearly ignored is that it hit a company embroiled in wage discrimination lawsuits. Whether the company overreacted probably will be decided in court - details matter and we do not have all of them e.g. how common is it that employees mail the whole company.

dfraser992 9y ago
> His lack of political savyness is mind-boggling but then he was hired not for that. No... I can see something of me (from 20 years ago) in him. Engineer (or is he even a 'real' one given his degree?), male, mid-20s... I don't find his lack of understanding exactly how "political" people and society actually are (and predominantly so, to the detriment of capital T-truth) to be unexpected. People can be, and tend to be, willfully manipulative, and it takes some life experience to get a handle on that knowledge. In my mid-20s, I was a government contractor working on a large DoD project. Some impromptu hallway meeting with the bigwig PM running the whole thing led me to going blahblah with him explaining how easy it might be to do something he'd dreamt up the day before. I was just being an engineer who didn't understand social systems very well. So a few hours later, I get sort of chewed out by various PMs on our side as this 'idea' which was not in the contract and not in scope was now in scope... Part of the learning experience of how business actually works, and building things (hell, everything) is secondary to profit. The actual engineering part is secondary to organizational related bullshit - always. Basically, I think engineers need more exposure to the humanities and stuff like this might not happen. That is another essay entirely, explaining how STEM subjects became excessively important since the 60s, to the detriment of society. The stereotypical engineer does not understand social systems very well, I certainly didn't. But at this point in my life, I think understanding them is far more important than knowing a bunch of tech that will generally be obsolete in a few years; understanding how insane Western society is in some respects has become easy. I didn't read all of his manifesto, it was tedious and I understand enough social psych et al already... There is a balance that needs to struck and all the ideologues on both sides don't care for things to be in balance. Everything else in the parent comment, I agree with. Now I read that female Google employees may be suing re: the wage gap etc. Hmmm... I actually blew off two attempts from Google years ago to interview me :) I didn't want to go through their stupid interview process and had already had enough of large badly managed orgs (i.e. the DoD). The pay would have been nice though (a joke!)