4 ms·

Fuck, that sounds awful. It's hard for me to believe that there are techies who haven't ever heard of Peopleware, have never heard of Joel Spolsky and his FogB

by exergy 9y ago

Fuck, that sounds awful. It's hard for me to believe that there are techies who haven't ever heard of Peopleware, have never heard of Joel Spolsky and his FogBugz offices, and have never consulted even a single authority on what makes software developers productive. It's even harder to believe that those people are responsible for diverting giant sums of money towards making palatial office buildings that will house thousands of such developers.

6nf 9y ago
The problem with the Spolsky example is that Atlassian with their huge open-plan offices completely overshadowed Fog Creek in just a few short years.
- anildash 9y ago
  In some ways. They did raise $60 million, too, which didn't hurt. I think we're doing just fine having a successful business on our own terms. For what it's worth, Atlassian's NYC headquarters is… our Fog Creek offices, complete with private offices for coders. More about that here: https://medium.com/make-better-software/apple-is-about-to-do-something-their-programmers-definitely-dont-want-fc19f5f4487 https://medium.com/make-better-software/apple-is-about-to-do... (Source: I'm the CEO of Fog Creek.)
  - 6nf 9y ago
    The NYC 'headqarters' is not even on their list of locations https://www.atlassian.com/company/careers https://www.atlassian.com/company/careers so I'd be surprised if it hosts a signficant percentage of their development workforce. As far as I know their Sydney office is really the heart of their operation and it's very open plan.
    - loco5niner 9y ago
      I don't think he is saying Atlassian HQ is _located_ at Fog Creek, but that Atlassian HQ has a similar office plan as Fog Creek, "complete with private offices for coders".
      - sencho 9y ago
        https://www.businessinsider.com.au/atlassian-sydney-office-2017-7# https://www.businessinsider.com.au/atlassian-sydney-office-2...
- whipoodle 9y ago
  I don't think that's a problem, more a question of leadership's priorities.
- blub 9y ago
  Economic success is not a proxy for doing things properly. Many dysfunctional companies are very successful otherwise.

by exergy 9y ago

6nf 9y ago

The problem with the Spolsky example is that Atlassian with their huge open-plan offices completely overshadowed Fog Creek in just a few short years.

anildash 9y ago
In some ways. They did raise $60 million, too, which didn't hurt. I think we're doing just fine having a successful business on our own terms. For what it's worth, Atlassian's NYC headquarters is… our Fog Creek offices, complete with private offices for coders. More about that here: https://medium.com/make-better-software/apple-is-about-to-do-something-their-programmers-definitely-dont-want-fc19f5f4487 https://medium.com/make-better-software/apple-is-about-to-do... (Source: I'm the CEO of Fog Creek.)
- 6nf 9y ago
  The NYC 'headqarters' is not even on their list of locations https://www.atlassian.com/company/careers https://www.atlassian.com/company/careers so I'd be surprised if it hosts a signficant percentage of their development workforce. As far as I know their Sydney office is really the heart of their operation and it's very open plan.
  - loco5niner 9y ago
    I don't think he is saying Atlassian HQ is _located_ at Fog Creek, but that Atlassian HQ has a similar office plan as Fog Creek, "complete with private offices for coders".
    - sencho 9y ago
      https://www.businessinsider.com.au/atlassian-sydney-office-2017-7# https://www.businessinsider.com.au/atlassian-sydney-office-2...
whipoodle 9y ago
I don't think that's a problem, more a question of leadership's priorities.
blub 9y ago
Economic success is not a proxy for doing things properly. Many dysfunctional companies are very successful otherwise.