5 ms·

anecdata != data. You haven't presented any alternative views on what a presumably more competent economist could have executed on. Just because life was bad do

by Tyrek 9y ago

anecdata != data. You haven't presented any alternative views on what a presumably more competent economist could have executed on. Just because life was bad doesn't mean that it could have been better.

elorant 9y ago
What his predecessor tried to do. Fix the economy. Greece's problem isn't the debt per se, it's the fact that our economy isn't competitive. There's a lot of red tape, many professions are regulated (pharmacies are a prime example), we import way more things than we export, entrepreneurism is very low, public sector is corrupted, the insurance system is bankrupt, and a lot of things don't work as they should in a modern western country. Even if we defaulted in all our debt, which is highly unlikely even if we exit the Eurozone, we'd be in the same position give it a few decades. There are a lot of structural problems in the economy and Varoufakis did nothing to address any of these. All he did was acting like a rock star who is clueless of how things work in the upper levels of EU policy making. In the six or so months of his reign he didn't introduced a single policy to fix structural problems. Not one, nothing, zero, ziltch. He was so fixated in the debt issue and acting like a fucking primadona that he forgot there were other equally pressing matters to attend to. Like running the damn country for one.
- Apocryphon 9y ago
  So you're advocating for your country to undergo the same sort of economic shock therapy that other states before have undergone?
  - elorant 9y ago
    Why, do you think that if we exit the EU things will become instantly better? It will be much, much worse for the foreseeable future. Greece isn't self-sustained. We import pretty much everything, from oil to fertilizers.
    - Apocryphon 9y ago
      I'm not suggesting Grexit as the alternative, I'm just wondering if you think prior examples of IMF-driven shock therapy are the best model to emulate. There's a cost to every option. That said, I think you're suggesting something a little milder than what other countries have attempted.
    - narag 9y ago
      Why, do you think that if we exit the EU things will become instantly better? Actually most economists that I've read from very different camps agree that the main problem in EU is monetary union without political union. Specifically, European nations used to solve that kind of crisis devaluating currencies, now an impossible measure. So taking Greece completely out of the Union was a sensible proposition... among others. It wasn't the decision that was finally taken, but it doesn't seem so weird at all. If you take some time to think about it, the problems that you mention in other comments like high pensions demand extremely hard measures to be solved. People won't give up what they consider their well-deserved rights so even if you plan to remove red tapes and throttle the public money tap, it would take a long time with strikes and social unrest everywhere. That kind of problems are never solved with fair measures unfortunately. So whatever you think Varoufakis was wrong about, I'm very sure nobody had a right answer for it, including the current path. Best of luck, anyway.
- KGIII 9y ago
  Just because I am not clear, are you suggesting that the pharmaceutical industry be unregulated? You don't want your pharmacy subjected to regulation? How about professional engineers and physicians?
  - elorant 9y ago
    The pharmaceutical industry has nothing to do with how many pharmacies will be allowed to operate. In Greece, up until recently, the government controlled how many pharmacies will open and where. Pharmacies ought to be owned by pharmacists. If say, a company wanted to open a chain of pharmacies all over the country they couldn't, unless all shareholders were pharmacists. And that's not all of the story, super markets for example weren't allowed to sell under the counter drugs like food supplements because there were exclusively handled by pharmacies. This changed, partly, just in 2016 and it changed due to the agreements enforced by the memorandums we signed with lending parties. The same applies to numerous professions, like notaries, taxi owners, customs agents, law firms, tour guides etc. That's what I mean by saying that the economy isn't competitive.
    - wott 9y ago
      Competitive with whom? Many countries in Europe at least have the same strong regulations on the same professions (pharmacies, notaries, taxis, etc.). Get out of your liberal dreamed land and check the reality.
    - 4bpp 9y ago
      As of four years ago, Germany at least had the same restriction on operating pharmacies (I was not aware of any legal restriction on their number, but it wouldn't surprise me either).

by Tyrek 9y ago

elorant 9y ago

What his predecessor tried to do. Fix the economy. Greece's problem isn't the debt per se, it's the fact that our economy isn't competitive. There's a lot of red tape, many professions are regulated (pharmacies are a prime example), we import way more things than we export, entrepreneurism is very low, public sector is corrupted, the insurance system is bankrupt, and a lot of things don't work as they should in a modern western country. Even if we defaulted in all our debt, which is highly unlikely even if we exit the Eurozone, we'd be in the same position give it a few decades. There are a lot of structural problems in the economy and Varoufakis did nothing to address any of these. All he did was acting like a rock star who is clueless of how things work in the upper levels of EU policy making. In the six or so months of his reign he didn't introduced a single policy to fix structural problems. Not one, nothing, zero, ziltch. He was so fixated in the debt issue and acting like a fucking primadona that he forgot there were other equally pressing matters to attend to. Like running the damn country for one.

Apocryphon 9y ago
So you're advocating for your country to undergo the same sort of economic shock therapy that other states before have undergone?
- elorant 9y ago
  Why, do you think that if we exit the EU things will become instantly better? It will be much, much worse for the foreseeable future. Greece isn't self-sustained. We import pretty much everything, from oil to fertilizers.
  - Apocryphon 9y ago
    I'm not suggesting Grexit as the alternative, I'm just wondering if you think prior examples of IMF-driven shock therapy are the best model to emulate. There's a cost to every option. That said, I think you're suggesting something a little milder than what other countries have attempted.
  - narag 9y ago
    Why, do you think that if we exit the EU things will become instantly better? Actually most economists that I've read from very different camps agree that the main problem in EU is monetary union without political union. Specifically, European nations used to solve that kind of crisis devaluating currencies, now an impossible measure. So taking Greece completely out of the Union was a sensible proposition... among others. It wasn't the decision that was finally taken, but it doesn't seem so weird at all. If you take some time to think about it, the problems that you mention in other comments like high pensions demand extremely hard measures to be solved. People won't give up what they consider their well-deserved rights so even if you plan to remove red tapes and throttle the public money tap, it would take a long time with strikes and social unrest everywhere. That kind of problems are never solved with fair measures unfortunately. So whatever you think Varoufakis was wrong about, I'm very sure nobody had a right answer for it, including the current path. Best of luck, anyway.
KGIII 9y ago
Just because I am not clear, are you suggesting that the pharmaceutical industry be unregulated? You don't want your pharmacy subjected to regulation? How about professional engineers and physicians?
- elorant 9y ago
  The pharmaceutical industry has nothing to do with how many pharmacies will be allowed to operate. In Greece, up until recently, the government controlled how many pharmacies will open and where. Pharmacies ought to be owned by pharmacists. If say, a company wanted to open a chain of pharmacies all over the country they couldn't, unless all shareholders were pharmacists. And that's not all of the story, super markets for example weren't allowed to sell under the counter drugs like food supplements because there were exclusively handled by pharmacies. This changed, partly, just in 2016 and it changed due to the agreements enforced by the memorandums we signed with lending parties. The same applies to numerous professions, like notaries, taxi owners, customs agents, law firms, tour guides etc. That's what I mean by saying that the economy isn't competitive.
  - wott 9y ago
    Competitive with whom? Many countries in Europe at least have the same strong regulations on the same professions (pharmacies, notaries, taxis, etc.). Get out of your liberal dreamed land and check the reality.
  - 4bpp 9y ago
    As of four years ago, Germany at least had the same restriction on operating pharmacies (I was not aware of any legal restriction on their number, but it wouldn't surprise me either).